Here's another update upon some of the ongoing/outstanding tit-for-tats and lingering questions, of which I've received either their nonsensical or intentionally evasive/disinformation replies, and/or of their typically sharing absolutely nothing whatsoever as to go on. Usually all that I've obtained is of what's already published according to their NASA/Apollo bible of standards. In other words, if something doesn't or even might not support their grand ruse/sting of the century, then lo and behold, it either is not going to be shared with the likes of myself, or such information doesn't even exist, as otherwise it's referred to as an another (though unsubstantiated) impossibility, as almost never are there specific numbers being offered from other than the "all knowing" NASA/Apollo bible, as intended to further substantiate their authority as to opposing whatever others and myself have proposed.
Population control to conserve upon energy is still a topic that's alive, even though I'm no longer being allowed to share my views. Obviously I'm the bad guy, the supposed messenger from hell that's keeping all the horse pucky flying through those enormous mainstream fans of nondisclosure, potentially clogging up their ruse whenever it suits the mainstream status quo or the likes of Dick Cheney, as long as we're talking about the sort of incest cloning of borgs having to defend whatever the stench need be kept hidden.
Since there are few honest contributors, as such within that respect I've introduced similar notions into a couple of other topics that did not seem to be occupied by the sorts of intellectual "damage-control" borgs that show their intent as to provide little if anything usable. However, the forum members and moderators are not only continually pretending as not being whom they really are, such as on their witch-hunt as for tracking anything that I post, therefore it's quite easy for their automatic seek-and-destroy methods to identify if I've cross-posted, and/or duplicated anything, as technically that's "spamming their forum", even though there was an honest effort on my part as to inform and/or enlist others less intent upon shutting down the creator of another God-forbid new idea that's outside of their box. Unfortunately, most forums host such a hidden agenda, regardless of whatever is specified otherwise, and that's simply a fact of life that isn't supposed to be fair. So, I'm not insulted nor the least bit surprised at the similar actions being taken against folks by any number of forums that can't manage to assimilate folks into their collective.
Thereby this page is not solely pertaining to the Sciforums.com sort of "know-thy-enemy" ruse busting, as there's lots of other rusemasters about that need all of their buttons pushed, as for even sweet and supposedly innocent Sandy Wood as being their NPR queen of the McDonald observatory informed me that it was absolutely impossible for the likes of their instruments, such as any of theirs, and even more so of KECK-II which couldn't possibly image upon any significant portion of the nighttime side of Venus. Well lo and behold, guess whom is an absolute lying queen bitch of NPR, as KECK-II had indeed imaged upon a very significant portion of the Venus season of nighttime, and of that not so hapenstance accomplishment was prior to my even asking the question, whereas KECK-II only managed to recod upon a rather unusual amount of "green glow" as supposedly emitting from a substantial level of ionized O2 that created those photons, as such coming from them relatively cool nighttime clouds. Thus, is there no limits as to the intellectual incest? (apparently not).
In other words of honest wisdom; If they can't manage to assimalite you, as into their collective intellectual incest hall of fame, they'll eat you alive, and/or see to it that others of their collective have unrestricted access and authority to bash, and without chance of their being banished as for their effeorts at bashing absolutely every topic and sub-topic I have to offer, which by itself should rig a nasty few bells or two of what's been running us amuck, as certainly the truth isn't what's at stake, as it's their relentless efforts at sustaining their cold-war ruse of the century, and of absolutely everything other that's associated that's at risk of exposure.
This following reply offered by "eburacum45" was one of the few good sorts of information feedback (unusual since mostly I've had to endure their intellectual flatulance as flak opposing absolutely anything I've had to say). The reply that I was about to share my thoughts upon the topic of "How did the different human races evolve?" was apparently more than the lords of "sciforums.com" could take, and as since they decided their collective couldn't surpress my research, and as the intellectual borgs that they all are, could not and/or would not respond to specific questions, thus they were going to be damned if anyone other could offer viable substance that was outside of their "mainstream status quo" box.
Sciforums topic: How did the different human races evolve?www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=640217
That image of the rotation of the galaxy with projections of the historical locations of stars is an interesting link, thank you, Bradguth.
It does not prove that Sirius has ever come close to the Sun, although , As I said before, it does not rule out the possibility; in fact if you look at the projection for the date 150 million years b.p. many of the stars now in our local volume seem to temporarily converge on our then current location.
But the effects of the mutual gravities of all those stars would have been chaotic and makes the exact location of the Sun, and its relation to Sirius, impossible to predict accurately, even with a computer the size of the Galaxy.
I'll give you a little information abiout the real motion of Sirius, if you like; Sirius is an outlying member of the loose association of stars, a former cluster known as Collinder 285; the main stars of this cluster are about eighty light years away, and are visible as the middle stars of the Big Dipper. For this reason the whole group is known as the Ursa Major comoving group or the Sirius stream; Sirius, and all the stars in this group, are about 400 million years old, and have been round the Galaxy more or less together twice, slowly spreading apart (once they were a tight, young cluster like the Pleiades).
The Sun is not a part of this comoving group, and so has no association with the movement of Sirius or Collinder 285; the proper motion of the Sun is toward Vega, while that of Sirius is currently toward Sagittarius.
My intended reply to the above, of wich I'm being thoughtfully blocked from delivering;
Thanks much for your feedback, as it's almost as though I should have been reconsidering the notion of Vega as being the illuminating culpet, that is until I further reviewed your information and that of some other available data on Vega.
1) age is estimated between 340 Myr and 390 Myr
2) range is currently estimated at 26 LY
3) closest future encounter of 12+ LY isn't going happen for 250,000 years
4) Illumination of 54X offers a spectrum shifted perhaps 50~75 nm towards the near-UV
Vega Spectrum Atlas: http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/us/vatlas/vatlas.htm
The Vega mass and of it's illumination intensity is certainly better off than Sirius, although the bulk of the average spectrum isn't of the required 375~425 nm as with Sirius, and it's otherwise been too far away. This star of Vega supposedly isn't old enough, and of the cycle/event timeline, or rather that of our cycle period with respect to that of our moving towards Vega is simply too long, especially if it's supposedly another 250,000+ years worth as just for our final inbound portion, as it sounds much like we're talking millions of years for each encounter, and as such it's not even predicted as becoming half the current distance, thus at best offering itself as merely 4 times as illuminating.
Unless the stellar laws of nature and/or ETs was on a mission of terraforming Earth had managed to ignite our moon for some rather extended periods of time, as in gradually building intensity over tens of thousands of years, and allowing those lunar flames to subside over the following tens of thousands of years, chances are that we can discount our moon as having anything whatsoever to do with the necessary amounts of added illumination required of promoting and sustaining diatoms for the process of CO2-->CO/O2, though perhaps a thin cloud of sufficiently heavy ion atoms as emerging from the lunar core, and of those subsequently ionized by the solar influx might conceivably have gradually induced a reflective/illuminating quality of obtaining 95+% lunar albedo, in which case our own sun could have indirectly accomplished the feat of cycling our levels of CO2 without much effort. Although, I still do not believe the proper growth spectrum could have been established, nor that such a reflective globe the size of our moon would have transferred a sufficient number of photons, unless it was perhaps also residing at half the distance.
Thus I'm excluding our moon and of whatever the sun was capable of cycling itself through without exploding, and of excluding the likes of Vega represents the only other viable alternative, as being the illuminating contributor that has ever been within our neighborhood, is still most likely that of Sirius.
Your statement that our sun "is not a part of this comoving group" of which Sirius is the alpha dog in terms of individual gravity influence to that of our solar system, this leaves the lingering notion of what other could possibly be the case for that of an elliptical association rather than not. As such, my conjecture stands until there's some alternative argument worthy of creating a sufficiently illuminated environment for the likes of accellerated plant growth and of massive diatom evolution in order to have induced the necessary levels of good-times, as opposed those the bad-times of the ice ages, which seem to have been interrupted lately due to the impact of humanity running amuck.
If it weren't for the human impact factor upon our environment, it's my thought that we'd have been well into our next ice-age, as the illumination and energy resource of Sirius has been well past the quarter way mark, and of Sirius still having another 10,000~15,000 years to go before our coexistence starts the next inbound cycle.
Thereby, the elliptical and/or egg shaped trek of our solar system with respect to the likes of Sirius is what's of most interest. Whereas if you could point out another resource of interested folks that could draw upon what's known of the nearest and most significant stellar motions, as such I believe there will become clear evidence of what's possible to have transpired between our solar system and Sirius.
As such, I'm not trying to be the all-knowing, as much as I'm being all-inquisitive and all-receptive to what's possible because, If I'm found sufficiently correct, then lo and behold, all sorts of expertise and of their answers should follow suit, and I'll even personally match the funding of Hubble for starters.
BTW; according to the laws of gravity, nothing is actually all that "chaotic" as you've suggested "the exact location of the Sun, and its relation to Sirius, impossible to predict accurately, even with a computer the size of the Galaxy" is entirely a wee bit opposing to what's already been accomplished with a computer considerably less massive than any Galaxy.
In case you're the least bit interested, here's are a few of the ongoing topics that I've created and/or contributed a word or two, though some if not all of these will soon become locked down, if not entirely emiminated from their data base. Since I can't seem to edit/post what I honestly think, as such perhaps you can keep some of these topics alive and kicking on my behalf. All you'll need to do is regester, and soon after start posting whatever.
Try to remember that this forum is yet another one of those KNOW-THY-ENEMY cesspools of intellectual tunneling that'll make your toilet look and smell terrific. If you'll notice how only the harmless topics are not being bashed, and/or banished into their CESSPOOL, if not entirely eliminated from the database altogether. So, don't expect anything but what the all-knowing mainstream is capable of because, chances are that they're good enough as to snooker the best there is, in much the same manner as our NASA/Apollo rusemasters have nearly everyone except myself and Kodak convinced that their mission photos (Apollo Kodak moments) were as such obtained upon the moon.
Ulterior motives of "Pseudoscience" against "craterchains" http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38973
Science without morality, without remorse http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38791
"NASA uses LLPOF anti-flak to protect Apollo butts" http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38195
How did the different human races evolve? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=640217
What is space made of? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38072
Superconducting Photons via Atomic Oort Zones http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=37921
Why does a mirror work? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35243
What are your thoughts on theoretical strings? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=39101
Population control to conserve upon energy http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38275
How did the different human races evolve? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=16319
Possible Alien War Tactics http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=37242
Venus Offers Whatever It Takes For UFOs http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=37923
Barcardi buys governments, even the American government http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38370
Cuba: Get over it already http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35917
USS Liberty...what really happened? http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=32121
The relative velocity of photon and moving frame:SR heresy http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38582
Of a few of my ongoing QUESTIONS that remain essentially outstanding;
What has been the tonnage of moon rock deposited upon Earth, as delivered by way of meteor express?
What's the lunar surface radiation, in terms of solar and secondary TBI dosage per hour?
What's the typical amount/depth of meteorites and lose debris/shards, as buildup upon the moon?
What's the honest risk factor of running into stuff at 30+km/s while situated on the moon?
Why aren't those Apollo photos (Kodak moments) the least bit skewed by the intensity of near-UV and UV/a specturm?
What's the reasonable terminal velocity of space (speaking in terms of physical stuff)?
Are photons codependent upon the atom, of coexisting by sharing the atomic coulomb/Oort zone of influence?
Is it possible for a photonic waveguide to conduct/deliver other photons at "c+" velocity?
Is anything that's faster than "c" actually the speed of energy, or perhaps "dark-energy"?
What's the typical mass potential of a photon, of a nearly resting photon, of a m3 worth of such photons???
Of how much mass and/or energy can a fully modulated photon represent and/or carry?
Without atoms, such as the few which might coexist/m3 within a significant nullification zone or stargate, how many are there of nearly-resting photons that could gather into dark-mater or perhaps dark-energy??
I've added another page of "TOPICS worth doing", although many of them are outside the mainstream box, thus seriously pissing off the status quo like there's no tomorrow.
Scientific morality (as in what morality), and certainly there has been absolutely no scientific remorse whatsoever for all the cloak and dagger associations with accommodating global domination, nor of the trillions of dollars/euros invested to date (not to mention the collateral take upon innocent lives) on behalf of astronomy, astrophysics and global energy reserves, nor are their moral objections as to investing trillions for more of the same, of which at best is only going to benefit the 0.1% of humanity and at perhaps eventually obtaining one cent on the dollar (gee whiz folks, can't wait for that trickle-down theory to kick in, that which could almost pay for an entire cup of coffee while we all sit back and thoroughly enjoy their global warming greenhouse benefits from all of their wonderful accomplishments, and otherwise we manage without essential energy resources as to somehow surviving without our having to kill one another off as for obtaining their share of energy). I guess life in the fast lane doesn't get any better than that.
Of what I've learned of Special Relativity(SR), is that the only thing special is the absolute necessity of folks (robots and cloned intellectual borgs alike) to consistently worship the likes of Einstein and Plank, and of what's relative is that everything by their definition and basis of formula that's solely dependent upon utilizing a constant, such as the velocity of light(c) is all there is, even though an actual vacuum doesn't exist as to substantiate upon even that much, along with no acknowledgments whatsoever of the coexisting atom, that which apparently must have existed prior to accommodating the photon, and that otherwise everything is entirely relative to our frame of motion, as opposed to any actual point of common reference. Thus it seems within this intellectually as well as scientifically skewed forum, you can only make a given argument that must always support their perceived constant "c", as into some perverted special form of truth that only works within our limited frame of coexistence (isn't that freaking convenient?).
BTW; don't attempt to impose any hard truths within this "sciforum", much less morality or remorse factors as per history, of what's current or of the future, as just like the NASA/LLPOF topics of my disclosing their lies upon lies, whereas I've also introduced another touch of the truth and nothing but the truth and consequences upon our 7 attempted invasions of Cuba, and of the "Barcardi buys governments, even the American government" as an honest topic of facts, of which at least hasn't been locked-down like my NASA/LLPOF topic, although of this topic being banished to their cesspool category has been one of their tactics at controlling whatever is being offered by honest folks that obviously haven't been sufficiently assimilated into their borg collective.
The remainder of this page is offered in reply to a good deal of flak I've previously fended off, with much of the warmest flak arriving with regard to the NASA LLPOF topic, whereas a few too many folks/borgs within sciforums.com seem to be stuck in their "mainstream status quo" rut or space toilet, with absolutely nowhere other to go except right back into that proverbial intellectual cesspool that has been badly plugged up ever since those NASA/Apollo cows left home. AS now all we seem to have is that chicken bloated fox guarding those few remaining old-guard Apollo chickens, while the rest of us sit around waiting for those cold-war Apollo cows to come home, and otherwise having to pretend that Kodak film can't be the least bit skewed by any amounts of increased near-UV and UV/a energy, not to mention the TBI worth of primary and secondary hard X-Rays to boot.
Since this is only a partial reply, and in order to somewhat avoid their "wall of words" criteria of not posting such an amount of words within their forum, I'll likely have to re-edit this page as to improve upon it reading, and/or add to it's wall-of-words context in order to address many other issues. Thus, please check back for the new and improved version that'll include whatever retractions as I become aware of the truth and nothing but the truth.
"NASA uses LLPOF anti-flak to protect Apollo butts"http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38195
A typical offering from Persol;
"Would you grow the fuck up already? What are you, 12? You can't offer any actual scientific or even logical reason why you think it's fake, so you insult us?"
Unfortunately, it seems that for the past four years and counting, I've offered way too much evidence, and too much "proof positive", not to mention uncovering absolute loads of hidden and not so hidden cold-war motives up the Kazoo that has been responsible for bashing my every word, and certainly there has been loads of opportunity and way more than ample means to boot, in so much as we've been snookered to a fairlywell, some of us snookered to death. If that Kodak moment (every stinking photo) which isn't the least bit color shifted or spectrum skewed/impacted in the least bit is not sufficient, then perhaps absolutely nothing else matters because, you're obviously the living proof positive that you're one if the incest cloned borgs, and as such can't possibly think outside of your "mainstream status quo" box of nondisclosure without seeing your CPU "blue screen of death".
This is another one of the latest instalment portions of what's new and improved;
As per: http://conxproject.gsfc.nasa.gov/radiation/docs/con_x_dose1.pdf
@705 km (thus situated well below the initial Van Allen zone)
(Solar minimum) Not even including any Electron or Bremsstrahlung rads, nor other influx, just per the available proton rads(si);
"I=98 deg, H=705/705 km (solar maximum)" @0.01 g/cm2 = 2.21e4 rads/y = 60.7 rads/day
Total rads(si) per "I=98 deg, H=705/705 km (solar maximum)" is 2.59e5/y = 711 rads(si)/day
External to our Van Allen buffer zone (70,000+km) of what a solar minimum has to offer is at the very least 5.5 fold greater amounts of solar and cosmic minimum proton energy than of what's situated below the Van Allen zone of death, though since those Apollo missions were 24/7 illuminated by their no longer orbiting Earth at solar minimum, as such a 10+ fold value can be assumed as conservative, while that's having absolutely nothing to do with any additional lunar secondary TBI dosage.
Adding TBI insult to injury are of those Bremsstrahlung rad emissions as per secondary reaction with the lunar surface itself, whereas instead of your being shielded behind such highly reactive material, instead you're being TBI dosed from nearly every possible direction, and from a considerable 1e6 m2 worth of a surrounding resource of such substances comprised mostly of dark basalts plus meteorites and shards sharing off mostly those IR photons, but of also creating a hard X-Ray dosage of perhaps 32 mr/m2/hr, such having no other mass (such as atmosphere) between yourself and the source of the surrounding Bremsstrahlung rads isn't such a good thing unless you've got that load of banked bone marrow standing by. Protected by a 0.5 g/cm2 moon suit designed primarily as a pressurized and only a partial thermal environment solution at best, of which at best is allowing in 10% of the available TBI dosage if the Bremsstrahlung factor of the primary influx and suit density itself is being honestly taken into account.
Thus the fully illuminated moon surface is offering NO walk in the park, not even on the nicest of solar days. With nearly a third of the solar energy influx being reflected off the surface, this alone makes the thermal environment worth nearly 2 kw/m2 upon them moon-suits, plus the 1000 btu/hr being contributed by the astronaut within represents a great deal of cooling requirement which has not been agreed upon by other than that NASA/Apollo chicken bloated fox, and them Apollo cows are still nowhere in sight.
This is besides all of those Kodak moments, of actually every stinking photo that which was not the least bit color shifted nor in any way skewed by the increase in near-UV(375~425 nm), nor of the UV/a spectrum of which the yellow dye portion of Kodak film was most sensitive to, that otherwise would have required an extensive usage of deep orange and/or amber filters to have roughly compensated, whereas a polarising filter alone would only have recorded the lunar surface as somewhat darker than otherwise recorded, without ever cutting the amounts of skewed photons that should have been the case, especially since there's no atmosphere as to filter such rays. Whereas the photos do otherwise indicate nearly an exact match to the artificial xenon illumination. Thus the mistake of not utilizing the approprate xenon/mercury lamps for their illumination, and/or a color shift filter, makes it rather easy to establish that absolutely non of the Kodak recorded images ever transpired as exposed to the lunar environment. This doesn't prove that Apollo never once set a foot upon the moon, it just proves that absolutely not one of those Kodak photos were ever acquired upon the moon.
The Kodak Moment: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm
This is not to say that Kodak film wouldn't have managed, just not unscaved, as in not without recording the primary influx of a rather healthy amount of near-UV and of the UV/a, plus recording secondary emissions of near-UV photons created by the horrific influx of the entirely unfiltered UV/a reacting rather badly with all of that supposed clumping moon dirt (supposedly darkish basalt), plus recording within frame as well as between frames, as well as for the leader/trailer portions of the film, as registering the foreground and background radiation associated with a good deal of hard X-Rays.
Of course, according to the incest borg cesspool of pro-NASA/Apollo freaks, absolutely non of this disclosure is worthy evidence of our being snookered, nor have I presented any evidence of motive or of the means by which such a ruse was ever pulled off. Apparently this is another one of those "so what's the difference" instances when we're supposed to accept that those WMD actually existed, and thereby morally justify upon the tens of thousands of perfectly innocent folks that paid the ultimate price, not to mention those which merely survived as being tortured by our own kind, or the more than thousand or so of our own kind plus friendly fire deaths, or pertaining to all those thousands of 9/11 folks that were obviously not privileged as to what our GW Bush warlordship was plotting against humanity from the very get-go.
Therefore, apparently everything regarding the lunar space elevator (LSE-CM/ISS) is to be considered as bogus.
And apparently absolutely everything regarding whatever Venus has to offer humanity (theirs as well as ours) is just as bogus.
Thus obviously my ongoing research into our associations with the Sirius star system is equally bogus.
Furthermore, are my honest environment concerns and notions of resolving clean energy solutions are just as bogus.
Obviously anything associated with my interplanetary photon research is to be automatically and summarily bashed to death as well.
Thus absolutely anything associated with interstellar/interplanetary laser communications is being touted as totally bogus.
Then for certain, anything regarding applied technologies as for implementing robotics and on behalf of other life surviving upon Venus is entirely out of the question.
Apparently, if it's anything that I have to share upon the physics of whatever affects life and science upon Earth not only doesn't apply to anything lunar, it simply doesn't function at all upon Venus, though oddly works just fine and dandy for the likes of Mars or even Saturn. Most importantly is that the mainstream status quo seems to know for another bloody fact that of intelligent other life of any sort doesn't exist nor coexist other than upon Earth, and if need be upon a flat as well as a sadisticallky bigoted Earth at that. Thus regardless of whatever applied physics, other life (especially more physiologically evolved or intelligent as per survival than humans) outside of Earth is simply a another one of their "flat Earth society" absolute no-no.
Good grief; it seems that all that's necessary as to disqualify any notion or conjecture is for myself to propose that humanity should perhaps do something that's not so damn conceded for a change, and lo and behold, all of the sudden whatever science and/or physics doesn't function worth squat if it might support even a portion of one of my notions. In other words, I could rob Fort Knocks, and even proclaim that I did such, and lo behold, none of these forum certified village idiot morons would believe a word that I had to say from the deck of my multi hundred million dollar yacht. Hay, things are looking up more than I thought.
Folks are being informed by moderators and thier mainstream borg collectives as to wonder why I'm not being "Mr. Nice Guy" to these absolute arrogant bastards, as in sucking up to these intellectually incest cloned borgs (if not biologically speaking), and of otherwise joining and/or worshiping their pagan "Skull and Bones" cultism of their "mainstream status quo". Especially odd that they don't seem to like me since I've posted dozens of those perfectly good and viable cold-war motives and close associations of our NASA/Apollo past and present, along with sufficiently proving the obviously means, and of their having the talents as to pulling off exactly what they did. And, I've way more than proven that such a horrific government lie consistently begets another lie, and so on until them Apollo cows come home. Yet these folks (excuse me; bastards) are accusing myself of being the "bad guy", almost as though I haven't bagged by fair share of innocent folks, nor have I roasted another batch of astronauts on behalf of accomplishing almost nothing of worth for humanity, nor have I taken out a fully loaded 747 that was supposed to be the Tel Aviv flight, but then I might as well be hiding Osama bin Laden, plus a stash of WMD as for all the flak I'm receiving.
This following portion was the original portion of this document;
BTW folks, on the topic of moon rocks; rocks containing 4 billion year old substances are really not all that hard to come by, at least not on Earth. Now If Apollo brought back some meteorites and/or shards from something that was 6, 8 or 10+ billion years old worth of whatever carbon-14, as then lo and behold, I'd be impressed but certainly not amazed because, the lunar environment offers an absolutely ideal meteorite morgue if there ever was, having absolutely nothing in the way of preventing such debris from not only collecting in the first place but, pretty much staying put, as in as-is where-is for eternity, with the exception of being infused with the likes of solar He3 and of perhaps having acquired a bit of stored up radiation from other reactions transpiring only because of there NOT being an atmosphere, or otherwise occasionally pulverized by some dust-bunny or micro meteor, or even via asteroid shards, and I wonder where the heck all of those lunar impact shards would have gone?
Again folks; the ISS is NOT nearly within the same situation nor impact worthy zone as the moon, whereas ISS is also situated well below the protective Van Allen zone of death, whereas ISS at 175 tonnes that may eventually acquire total mass of 200 tonnes (200,000 kg) creates less than a micro worth of gravity constant. At 10 meters radius of 1.334e-7 m/s/s, or if you'd like at 20 meters = 3.335e-8 m/s/s.
Whereas the moon offers a wee touch more than ISS(@2e5 kg), such as 7.349e22 kg and subsequently providing a rather nasty gravity constant of 1.623 m/s/s at 1738 km, whereas nearly everything coming within 2r pretty much starts in at 0.4 m/s/s, and summarily hits the deck at a truly horrific velocity and subsequent impact, unless it's already making good speed of an avoidance course in relationship as to escaping the lunar gravity, as otherwise the +/- 1 km/s from that of the mutual Earth/moon 30+km/s circumnavigating of the sun, and of whatever is destined to impact is still somewhat minor by the standard that our entire solar system is trekking itself through the vast expanse of this universe at supposedly 224 km/s, whereas again need I remind you, that the lunar environment offers absolutely nothing as to buffer whatever influx, be it physical debris, gasses or radiation of any classification, and the same goes for whatever is retro-emitted and/or irradiated away from the moon.
Thus my lunar metro bus (LM-1) was configured for protecting those folks working the surface of the moon, affording a portable safe-house as shield from excessive primary as well as secondary radiation, and offering a reasonable physical barrier to those potentially lethal dust-bunny impacts. However, as for taking on a full kg worth of just about anything that's clocking in at 30+km/s = 450e9 Joules/s, of which this nasty event is going to transpire in 33.3e-6 second per meter (that's 450e9 joule as being delivered in 33.3 micro second; thus you do the penetration math as based upon 4 g/ccm or perhaps 6 g/ccm).
Actually, if I wanted to be continually insulted about all of this, by way of folks continually quoting from whatever chapter and verse of their NASA/Apollo pagan bible, for that I'd go back into the cesspool of apollohoax.com. Within apollohoax.com is where all the absolute right answers are for absolutely everything under their sun, flat Earth and all, and even if not, there's always the vast expertise of the intellectually incest cloned likes of badastronomy.com. Of course, you'll first need to be sufficiently snookered, and then GW Bush educated by way of his "high standards and accountability", thereby easily fooled into believing in whatever the mainstream "Skull and Bones" cult is having to say, almost as though they actually had those independent surface probes feeding us the sorts of truthful lunar environment information in nearly real time.
Since there has not ever been an interactive instrument (outside of those cold-war Apollo moderated readings) feeding us raw lunar environment data, or at least nothing believable that wasn't offered by way of that Apollo chicken bloated fox, which if need be had every possible cold-war motive and means by which to snooker the world, as such I'm the village idiot that's having to interpret odds and ends of data that makes little but better than nothing sense. Like the issue of gravity and that of photons being measured off as being diminished by the square of whatever distance, whereas this method gives us one such opportunity of estimating upon whatever the raw energy/radiation source has to offer.
For example, a probe established 2 meters off the deck, thus having that TBI sensor located roughly at astronaut head level.
The maximum lunar terrain exposure towards that TBI sensor (or astronaut's head) is going to be something within 575 meters, unless it's of elevated terrain, of which there actually is a good deal of such elevated terrain.
Thus we're talking about roughly 1e6 m2 worth of lunar substance (rocks, meteorites, impact shards and thereby all of that infamous clumping moon dirt which only clumps upon the moon as potential exposure material, that which offers a whole lot more influx reactive capability than of any aluminum associated with that supposed lander.
If for example we were to give each m2 of lunar surface a raw capability of creating a half sphere worth of 1 microrem per degree per hour (360*90=32,400), whereas so far that's not so bad, that is if you're only within range of one of those m2 offering these multiple degrees worth of said secondary radiation.
Of course, the closer you get yourself to that m2 offering perhaps 32 millirem/hr of retro-irradiating moon dirt (apparently even retro-reflecting of visible photons if you'd dare to explain away those illumination hot-spots), as such the greater number of them hard X-Rays are going to find their way into your body.
Since there's absolutely no other mass situated between yourself and of whatever is irradiating your feet, your butt as well as that empty head of yours, and as for being that you are situated within the middle of a million of them retro-irradiating square meters worth of supposedly clumping moon dirt, as such this isn't exactly a good omen for an extended stay, unless you've got that stash of banked bone marrow standing by.
A few hours or perhaps a day at best and your DNA/RNA is cooked, and that's only if there were no significant levels of solar activity nor spike issues whatsoever, even though such a subdued solar activity represents a wide open doorway for the lunar environment to be acquiring additional cosmic sources of radiation, plus whatever secondary dosage that's created from all of that. So, essentially you're are sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't, and otherwise just freaking dumbfounded lucky if nothing other decides to impact your butt at 30+km/s.
There are thousands of different spectrums of radiation to pick from, some of which are simply visible photons, and others that are merely warm and fuzzy, and at various levels of intensity, thus nothing is absolute nor offering any constant as averaged out by way of any atmosphere, nor magnetosphere, thus has been my having to estimate (educated best effort guess) because oddly we still have no other honest way of knowing the truth and nothing but the truth. Adding in the other amounts of direct solar influx and of cosmic sources along with the secondary radiation exposure and it seems not all that difficult to realize upon a 360+ rem/day as a viable level of raw exposure, within a moon-suit cutting that down to perhaps as little as 6 rem, although if we're talking in terms of hard X-Rays, perhaps 36+ rem/day getting through seems more likely.
This link was provided by way of borg "blackholesun"
Oddly, besides all of the usually good radiation exposure data that entirely supports absolutely anything and everything Apollo, apparently I'm still so dumbfounded that I couldn't find anything independent on lunar radiation as per satellite detected, and otherwise only data that's not only contradictory to the Raytheon/TRW Space Data Report which offered 2e3 Sv/year as situated within the Van Allen zone and behind a worthy shield of 2 g/cc of aluminum, but as contrary to their very own new-guard study/report. Of course, if that "mad19.html" report or any others associated had offered anything other than they did, that would have been the end of their funding, if not physical termination/extermination to boot because, our cold-war was playing for keeps, and in such war there are NO RULES, except for the one about your not getting caught, which also represents absolute nondisclosure enforcement or else.
BTW; on Earth we receive roughly 1 mr/day, however much of that's often coming from our physical surroundings and not from Space, whereas at 590 km and 0.01 g/cm2 there's 7.32e4 up to 1.94e5/y, or 201 to 533 worth of solar and cosmic rads/day, which isn't even counting upon whatever them Van Allen zones of death contribute to shielding our butts from the potential gauntlet worth of 9.9e7/y (272,000 rads/day). Thus if anything my 360 rads/day upon the moon is being extremely conservative, whereas the 360 rads/hr may actually be more truth and consequences than anything NASA/Apollo reported. If we gave the atmospheric penetration an honest sealevel value of 0.1 mr/day, this makes that 201 rads/day into a 2010:1 increase simply due to the lack of an atmosphere, and 5,330:1 as for the greater value as specified upon page 3, as taken from the official radiation report that's still based upon a 1-mil foil thickness worth of shielding at that. Even if you care to utilize one of the lesser columns such as per them "protons", your DNA is still essentially getting sliced and diced to a fairlywell, unless your spacecraft offers a tonne of shielding.
Speaking of the SOA as per the Apollo missions getting through the Van Allen zone; "At 38,000 km altitude it would actually be moving only about 4.6 km per sec, not 11.2. If we just take the geometric average of these two, 7.2 km per sec, we will not be too far off, and get about 1.5 hours for the time to pass beyond 38,000 km."
BTW; In places some of the worst TBI dosage starts building at 640 km, and otherwise your 38,000 km distance is only if they're making a straight beeline through-pass, and not of any angular trajectory, and there's still another 32000 km worth of a somewhat less nasty radiation zone before exiting the outer Van Allen belt. Instead of the 38,000 km basis; at 5º off the quadrant as for the first half (35000 km) of the overall Van Allen zone(s) becomes roughly 40,090 km, and perhaps of 4º for the outer half is 35,360 km, thus a total Van Allen zone penetration of 75,452 km.
"main part of the belts at around 38,000 km altitude" at your average of 7.2 km/s being roughly 1.5 hours (one way) is only partially true, and still conservative, as a good portion of 7.2>4.6 km/s would have been experiencing some of the worst environment there is, plus the aftermath passage of the remaining Van Allen outer zone is becoming most time consuming if the SOA is well below 4 km/s, especially through a solar wind distorted and of what's a bit gravity distorted as headed off towards the moon, thus my initial all inclusive to/from worth of TBI exposure of roughly 3 hours through the worst portions, plus another 4+ hours as traveling through other portions that were perhaps only a tenth as bad, simply was not that far off. Whereas upon an improved estimate having the average SOA being perhaps 3.65 km/s over the entire 75,452 km trek somewhat skews the allotted to/from time of total Van Allen exposure into easily representing 11.5 hours, whereas 8+ of those hours are those receiving less than a tenth the dosage of what the other 3.5 hours worth of whatever the hot zone had to offer. Again this is based upon merely a slight trajectory path instead of the straight through entry/exit passage. Obviously an honest review of the actual to/from trajectory paths and of the entire Van Allen zone should be available, I just haven't bothered to because what I've got is simply way over the line, but you certainly can give it your best shot.
"The Outer Van Allen Belt extends from an altitude of about 10,000-65,000 km and has its greatest intensity between 14,500-19,000 km."
Once outside the Van Allen zone of death (past 65,000+km, or 70,000 km where distorted by lunar gravity) is where the secondary lunar radiation starts kicking in, as based upon the advancement of Sv/d2. In other words, for every half the distance will in fact square the amount of radiation, whereas the worst possible place to end up being, other than within the nasty portion of the Van Allen zone of death, is on the lunar surface, and situated in full 24/7 sunlight at that.
BTFW; I believe that Van Allen hot zone, as offering 2e3 Sv/y behind 2 g/cm2 of aluminum was offering roughly four times greater shield density than of those lunar EVAs had to work with. Thus the shielded 23 rem/hr of what the Van Allen zone had to offer those Raytheon/TRW instruments would have become more like 160+rem/hr if utilizing what the Apollo lander or them moon-suits provided, although their command module should have cut the worst of that Van Allen zone to perhaps as little as 5 rads/hr. Thus the entire lunar to/from and EVA worth of TBI exposures for two of the three astronauts should have been survivable at something well under 100 rads (1 Sv). And, with steroid medications and/or banked bone marrow standing by (just in case), there shouldn't have been anything much to worry about, except for their eyes, certain privet parts and a few billion brain cells that they shouldn't have needed anyway.
This following link is the same one provided by the official "new guard" of NASA. Taking note that the "1 Year Mission Duration During Solar Maximum* I=28 deg, H=1000/70000 km"(page 7) is of not any given hot spot as per the Raytheon/TRW report, but inclusive of what's available per year upon average throughout the entire 1000/70000 km zone of death. Also take notice, that I'm a whole lot more interested in the ratio of near zero shielding (0.01 g/cm2) as opposed to what 0.5 g/cm2, 2 g/cm2 and so on has to offer in the "Total rads(si)", whereas going from 0.01 to 0.5 g/cm2 offers a 7:1 reduction, thus 360/7 = 51.4 rads as being within a 0.5 g/cm2 moon-suit, whereas the "L2 + MAP Phasing Loops"(page 8) indicates a 61:1 ratio, thus 360/61 = 5.9 rads as for being protected within said moon-suit. It's confusing to say the least, therefore you should try to figure this one out for yourself, as all I know is that them moon-suits nor helmets weren't worth squat against the sources of radiation while situated upon the surface of the moon.
Don't forget; the above official link is based upon an orbiting mission, thereby nearly half of the time being shadowed by mother Earth, of it's atmosphere and of the sunward facing magnetosphere, thus reflecting and/or deflecting the brunt of solar influx. Also remember that this report is not persay of any one hot-spot as per the Raytheon/TRW report, but of the average Van Allen zone contribution, whereas a fully illuminated lunar mission offers no such advantages, plus loads of nasty secondary radiation factors to boot. Space travel radiation in general is basically worse off outside of the Van Allen zone, as opposed to being situated under the 590 km level whereas you are greatly well protected by way of what the magnetosphere and subsequent shield density provided by those Van Allen belts surrounding mother Earth. Thus when you're interpreting the "con_x_dose1.pdf" data (easier said than done), keep such things in perspective.
The following links pertain to moon rocks, such as those to be found right here on Earth.
Tiny zircons (zirconium silicate crystals) found in ancient stream deposits indicate that Earth developed continents and water -- perhaps even oceans and environments in which microbial life could emerge -- 4.3 billion to 4.4 billion years ago, remarkably soon after our planet formed.
Now, the zircons from Western Australia demonstrate that continents and water existed 4.3 billion to 4.4 billion years ago. "Life could have had the opportunity to start 400 million years earlier than previously documented," Mojzsis said.
Very old rocks are at the surface in the Canadian Shield area. Up to about 3.8 or 3.96 billion years old.
Oldest rocks found so far on Earth are zircon grains from a sandstone in western Australia, dated at 4.1 to 4.2 billion years old.
So a good guess is that the age of the Earth is about 4.6 billion years.
There's supposedly certified rocks from Mars, of impact shards that arrived upon Earth by way of secondary meteorite express, and I'd have to suppose there should be a whole lot more of such deliveries made available from whatever lunar impacts than of Mars. As after all, of whatever smacked into our moon most likely either re-collected itself upon the lunar surface after a few million orbits, or subsequently arrived here on Earth. Thus to be found upon Earth, there should have been moon rocks and/or moon like meteorite debris that has not been distinguished as for their not being from the moon, or as any result of a meteor glancing off the moon.
There are some rather numerous and sizable craters, in which the lack of an atmosphere along with the 1.623 m/s/s worth of added acceleration had to have induced far greater impact energy than for whatever impacted through the likes of the Mars atmosphere, and as such have initially ejected far more substance away from the moon than Mars. From the perspective of Earth or Hubble, the moon surface is upon average considerably more impacted/m2 than of Mars, although you'd never realize that from any of those Apollo Kodak moments, much less notice any spectrum skew from the horrific added amounts of near-UV(375~400 nm) and UV/a(315~375 nm). The moon is seemingly impacted much as though it arrived here via having to trespass the Oort and Kuiper zones of our solar system, as otherwise Earth's gravity should have attracted far more of the truly big stuff, such as those horrific impressions upon the moon so indicate.
If anyone ever had the necessary capability of locating and identifying moon like rocks, as asteroid/meteor debris delivered to Earth, and/or of secretly modify almost anything into being unearthly, that would have to be the vast and capable agency that had been charged with the task of getting man onto and back from the moon. If push came down to shove, as an insurance policy, I'd certainly have those gathered rocks if only to hedge my cold-war bet, especially since years of actual progress on behalf of the Apollo program wasn't looking good, in fact it was so bad-off that there's still no prototype flight documentation of the lander technology, and a safety engineer and of his entire family had to be eliminated in order to keep those nasty cold-war lids on tight, and thereby keeping them bucks flowing in.
In closing; I'd say that you folks (NASA/NSA/DoD spooks, moles and incest cloned borgs) of the pro-NASA/Apollo moderators guild of sciforums.com) simply don't hold a freaking candle to the rusemaster likes of apollohoax.com, badastronomy.com or even uplink.space.com. Most of which purged my postings as soon as they could; and why is that?
It's also interesting for noticing out of all of the hundreds of topics posted, and of all that wide range of categories, in that at any one time there's hardly anyone viewing, whereas as I know for a fact that moderators of scifourms.com don't count as viewing or even as per posting their replies, thus the entire forum is essentially devoid of the public, and otherwise skewed as though it's functioning as another ruse like "uplink.space com". It's almost as though "scifourms.com" already knows all there is to know, but isn't willing to share.
All of this tit-for-tat and LLPOF naming would not have been an issue if there were ever a few interactive instruments reporting from the moon, as to exactly what the thermal and radiation as well as seismic issues were all about. Perhaps within the next decade we'll obtain the ability as to actually deploying such instruments, such as my javelin probes that offer a much better science bang for the buck than of the complexity of the proposed "Polar Night" mission.