Earth / Venus Acclamation, for that you'll need lots of energy

For a solution, I've got just the nifty ticket, actually it's an EVA power unit, appliance or contraption that runs itself almost entirely on hot CO2 (the hotter the better)

by; Brad Guth / IEIS    updated: July 09, 2003

Fortunately, Venus offers quite a great deal of free energy (in spite of NASA's anti-intelligence), in fact, I'd have to say it's got nearly too much, thus it's become a rather toasty place
(in spite of official disinformation, with regard to such abundantly free energy about, there are few limits as for creating and sustaining life)

Update: July 08, 2003  Once again folks;  I may not be going about stating everything according to your way of thinking. However, if you can't get yourself into the basic drift of where all of this page is going, then certainly I'm not the one deprived of mental capacity, as this may become somewhat of a puzzle for those vehemently opposing absolutely everything Venus, or that of merely another test of one's ability to reason a few new testy things out. Such reasoning is obviously something those being paid by us taxpayers need not bother their thoughts over because, actual outside the box independent thinking could subsequently uncover something truly bad and ugly about what they've been up to (knowingly or otherwise) and, we certainly would not want to cause any further levels of depression nor compunction among the ranks.

If you are thoroughly intent upon discovering mistakes or exchanging insults (such as my frequent over-shoot/under-shoot of calculations plus whatever dyslexic syntax), so that you can proclaim yourself as being more intelligent, perhaps simply more moral then myself and, more justified as to discrediting my efforts, as perhaps for your entertainment benefit, you don't need to worry yourself because, of those unintentional errors you are going to find lots of. Since unlike yourself, I'm not perfect plus, I've become spread so thin over so many worthy (positive) considerations for sustaining life AS and NOT as we may know it, that I do seem to keep getting myself out of phase or off track with the essential goal(s), that which is to inform others supposedly (according to their own statements) capable of their proving how smart they are, to step forward instead of sideways or backwards and perhaps (God forbid) actually do something that's outside the NASA/NSA/DoD cloaking nondisclosure box but, entirely within those other science/physics, biology and even geology boxes. Unfortunately, unless "common sense" can be patented, there's not really a revolutionary idea here to be capitalized upon and, perhaps that's been the real problem; as all along there's simply little or no financial profit incentive, even though I've begged to differ as to there being a great deal of worthy enterprise associated with the planet Venus.

Such as for my providing an appliance that is merely a collection of other ideas and as such royalties afforded to those responsible for their share in the outcome, which I believe this can still be of great value and can as such be officially recorded as being an appliance sufficiently unique (new to all the world, possibly even new to Venus), thereby worth protecting the development rights as to recovering those investments (including royalties being paid to others). Of course, none of that's ever going to happen if the powers that be remain successful at snookering the world.

Air conditioning isn't worth squat if you're surrounded by an infinite greenhouse.

Of course I realize, any time you're having to deal with way too much heat, you're having to depend upon insulation (the more the better). There's not worth in inventing much of anything for extracting heat if there's millions more of those greenhouse BTUs/VTUs coming at you from all directions, with no end in sight. Fortunately, as we all know that a near vacuum offers a fairly good thermal insulator, though unfortunately, that very same vacuum represents a rather piss poor isolation or barrier against thermal radiation issues, such as sunlight upon the moon creates 260+F. R radiating energy of almost any form requires a good deal of mass in order to stop or rather deflect or convert its otherwise straight path. A very heavy/thick or dense gas can provide a rather good thermal conduction insulator (such as CO2 in part insulates Venus to death), or such as xenon having a thermal conduction coefficient of 0.01 is certainly another good element, though it's not worth squat as far as blocking IR nor of most other radiant spectrums unless it's highly compressed. As for dealing with many radiant issues, for that you'll need something liquid or eventually of solids.

Ar Thermal conductivity    0.02 J/m-sec-deg
C   Thermal conductivity   1.59 J/m-sec-deg
H   Thermal conductivity   0.18 J/m-sec-deg
Kr Thermal conductivity    0.01 J/m-sec-deg
N   Thermal conductivity   0.03 J/m-sec-deg
0   Thermal conductivity   0.03 J/m-sec-deg
Xe Thermal conductivity    0.01 J/m-sec-deg

However, even though the thermal conduction of hydrogen as posted above is 18 times more conductive than xenon, of using hydrogen and especially utilizing it in a state of near vacuum may become an even better thermal conduction isolator, such as outer space containing 6^6 atoms of hydrogen as opposed to 6^24 per m3 at 1 bar is certainly a darn good example of obtaining terrific insulation, though at the same time offering a rather piss poor shield from whatever's being directly radiated at you, such as the sun.

Obviously, even by the best evolutionary Darwin act in town, of anything surviving on Venus couldn't have been such an easy task, even though time was on the side of evolution coming up with whatever genetics and/or the intellect, as one may still need to have discovered or devised upon a good thermal radiant barrier (the season of nighttime certainly qualifies as a rather natural solar exclusion solution), where preferably that resolve offers the most thermally reflective qualities while introducing the least possible conduction, as well as for not weighing a tonne. Fortunately, the thick daytime cloud layer is already creating their first line of defence against solar thermal (IR) radiant energy (that's obviously been good and bad) and, even a great deal of other recognized harmfull forms of solar radiation are being atmospherically blocked, whereas whatever makes it through them clouds has at least another 50 km gauntlet worth of relatively dense atmosphere as representing another relatively good density barrier to just about anything radioactive, except of those photons from the UV extended visible spectrum of 350 ~ 750 nm, of those especially near-UV and somewhat deep into the UV/a spectrum are relatively unimpeded.

Although folks, might I boldly suggest that at night (a very long season of night) there is no significant other external source of radiant heat influx and, darn little if anything other in the way of solar radiation issues, as just the opposit is what's taking place, where the surrounding nighttime atmosphere below them clouds is cooling things off and, that's in spite of those upper level clouds warmed by the daytime being briskly circulated above the now cooler nighttime clouds, as well of the Venus surface losing its thermal energy by way of radiant heating that mostly CO2 atmosphere and subsequently inducing a great deal of conduction mode cooling, thermal energy subsequently proceeding upward while it conducts some of its thermal units into those cooler nighttime clouds and, eventually migrating out into space. This is not my stipulating that Venus nighttime is humanly cool, as that's hardly the case but, it's certainly a whole lot cooler than daytime and, at good elevation it's obviously cooler yet.

Don't let the NASA moderated gibberish fool you again; there is no other thermal alternative for Venus or any other planet (including Earth), except for there being a planetary thermal equilibrium, as either Venus is getting itself hotter as a whole (via volcanic eruptions and all) or it's not. If anything checks out, it's that Venus is cooling itself off by likely recovering from the sorts of planetary volcanic evolution that set their greenhouse in motion thousands of years ago and, not necessarily the touted millions of years as you'll read in just about every NASA moderated publication (NOVA/National Geographic plus any of a few hundred other publications) as well as school textbook. Basically what this planet Earth needs is a thorough textbook recall or burning, then another edit and republication that's worthy of being a whole lot more truthful about planets such as Venus, not to mention a few tit for tats regarding our moon.

Throughout the Venus season of nighttime, the surrounding atmosphere and of the terrain are radiating and subsequently conducting away their daily influx of thermal energy build up, where eventually all of that solar influx gets radiated into space, though meanwhile, if you happen to be situated within that surface environment, then you are still being somewhat radiated upon as well as mostly being directly heated by conduction mode, from all of the surrounding CO2 as well as the surface itself and, that's a very bad thing, not of the CO2 itself but of all those nasty thermal units being conducted by way of the CO2 is what's bad, even though heat is somewhat relative to the pressure component and, that includes the vapor point of such fluids as blood or perhaps whatever circulates through Venus lizard folk.

Now then, if one did not have access to xenon but did have unlimited access to certain gases such as CO2, N2 and even H2 along with a little extracted CO/O2 and, you devised upon a way of extracting H2O under a good deal of vacuum distillation (storing such under pressure where necessary or converting into H2O2), as then it seems acceptable if not likely that since nearly all of the localized radiant factor has been effectively elimated by proper usage of thermally reflective/barier materials, that of the remaining bulk issue of conduction mode insulation can in fact be nicely accommodated, accomplished by the use of nitrogen (N2) or hydrogen (H2) gas.

Perhaps of what we've previously understood as a factor of conduction is actually a more complex issue of how much thermal radiation energy is getting through, whereas the space between the moon and that of our sun is supposedly occupied by mostly the near absolute vacuum of 6^6 atoms worth of hydrogen atoms per m3, whereas the supposedly Apollo measured +260F of the lunar surface being fully solar illuminated and -260F where not illuminated is actually more of a factor of solar radiant issues rather than conduction via all those in between hydrogen atoms. I tend to believe (because I don't know any better) if that void of space were to be comprised of the same number of Xenon atoms, that indeed we'd become somewhat lunar cooler, though not necessarily so much because of obtaining less conduction as clearly indicated by the 0.01 factor of xenon verses the .18 of hydrogen but, more so as a result of those xenon atoms effectively blocking more of the solar thermal radiated energy. When it comes down to most understood forms of radiated energy (including radiation), nothing beats mass, especially if that mass is the sort that's spread out over great distances and doesn't inflict secondary radiation (at least not in your direction).

Since all known matter radiates energy (I think that even includes black holes) and, of whatever becomes conduction mode is merely a secondary result or perception of what's happening, thus blocking radiated energy becomes far more essential than issues of conduction. This is where I believe the micro-sphere containment of few atoms held within a vacuum is about as good as it's going to get, thus offering the dual properties of blocking thermal radiation as well as nicely containing the secondary vibrations and/or conductions within each micro-sphere.

As a second worth for using N2 or H2 within spheres; a perfectly good reason to apply N2 or H2 as opposed to something heavier like xenon (Xe) is just that based upon the factor of considering weight, as it'll do you or anyone little good being sufficiently insulated if the EVA suit ends up being a meter thick or if it weighs 100+ kg.

A method or medium of containing something like H2 under good vacuum might be as simple as in the form of hallow glass or ceramic micro-spheres, where the compression strenght per micro gram of containment materal utilized per sphere is going to be quite good, rather exceptional to say the least, as well as the thin shell of that material also representing a relatively good insulator in its own right. Thus we could have hundreds if not a thousand such micro-spheres per mm, those filled with few atoms of H2 or perhaps just H, thus creating no easy mechanisim by which thermal conduction can take place, as each micro-sphere is literally a thermal dynamic world onto its own. Having the in between sphere voids loaded with ambient N2 seems like icing on the cake, or possibly utilizing a relatively small amount of xenon for this application would be double icing this performance to a level of exceeding .004 (R 250) per inch or per 25.4 mm.

Lets say those micro-spheres are .001 mm each, thus it'll take 1^18 of them little suckers to fill a cubic meter. Produced under an initial state of vacuum, each of those micro-sphere might contain as few as 1 h2 atom, which is no where as few as those 6^6 atoms/m3 supposedly occupying free space but, none the less we should be fairly close enough to a vacuum status, as even if there were ten atoms each, that's still without adding all that much weight because 10^18 as opposed to 1 bar worth of hydrogen representing 6^24 atoms is still a vacuum of at least a million to one. In fact, the surface weight of each micro-sphere at ten atoms each should remain something less than of the surrounding CO2 that's estimated at 65+kg/m3 (heavier at night: 68+kg/m3) thus potentially buoyant, so that we've added no appreciable weight to the EVA suit other than of what's surrounding (most likely N2) and/or structurally containing all those micro-spheres, being those materials of silica fabric and/or films such as mylars that are chosen for the right amounts of thermal reflective aspects as much as for their functional assembly of this EVA suit.

All and all, we've got our thermally insulated EVA suit damn near floating off into space, along with its BTUs or perhaps Venus Thermal Units (VTUs) under control, by achieving an overall combined thermal radiant barrier and conduction mode factor of 0.0039 (R 256) worth of EVA suit insulation (quite possibly accomplishing that criteria within a thickness of 25 mm), whereas the amount of energy needed as to extract those unwanted VTUs is no longer going to be such an energy challenge, especially if the acclimated soul inside the EVA suit has adjusted to a much greater thermal tolerance, due to the terrifically great amount of atmospheric pressure. At least on Venus, unlike our moon, the astronaut doesn't have to contend with rads/rems worth of solar radiation nor of lethal solar flare issues and, that's daytime, whereas nighttime simply needs a little illumination in order to supplement our non-UV capable vision.

Update: January 16, 2003  A fairly common error seems to have become that most of my loyal collective of Borg like critics and even of those not actually trying to be purely negative, is that error imposed by their typically limited or perhaps nitch education that's been further skewed if not embellished upon by the media and of those relentless NASA infomercials that have long been touting their latest idea of what a thermopile is all about (their taking that well established trade name from the original metallurgy invention/interpretation), as that now being essentially a modest but effective NPNP semiconductor approach, that which obviously needs a thermal differential and, more importantly an internal or possibly a concentrated solar source of heat, that's most often having been somewhat nuclear based as for probes of Mars or further destinations (as our sun is rather exponentially poor at heating much of anything all that much past Mars). The exception being is that of a Venus satellite could be powered by such NPNP technology because there's a rather notable differential between the bright solar illuminated and of the dark non illuminated NPNP thermopile panel sides. There are some obvious differences that still need to be noted; such semiconductor technology is simply not all that well suited for the Venus lower atmospheric temperatures and, of whatever added heat needed in order to obtain or drive any appreciable differential is going to place that sort of technology into melt-down mode long before a single electron ever flows, then by way of any typically internal thermonuclear core is going to have to fail-safe by petering out altogether, which is a darn good thing because, otherwise we'll have a thermonuclear runaway. Packing large blocks of Nitrogen cold along for the ride is simply out of the question, unless you've gotten some of that by way of remote/robotic refueling along the way.

Other seriously piss poor attributes of the NPNP thermopile (besides it's obvious thermal limitations) is that of it's relatively frail structure as well as it's impedance per junction is relatively high, thus hundreds to thousands of parallel junctions must be collected into every array. Their frail attributes and the fact of anything producing energy that's having to be massively parallel connected means that per each and every parallel junction there's going to become that much lesser reliability, such as from any mission associated impact or even thermal stress caused failures or perhaps just that of a latent manufacturing defect. One bad/shorted junction can represent the fatal if not catastrophic end of that array. Reliability is therefore based upon considerable over-building as well as having multiple arrays that can be diode isolated or remotely disconnected upon detecting any cell failure.

Few of my critics have honestly bothered to understand exactly what the type-K or type-E thermopile of alloys have to offer (too busy criticizing whatever isn't their idea and/or supporting our mission of destroying all those invisible WMDs).

In a very hot nut shell; Type-E or type-K alloys each offer a free flow of relatively low impedance electrons, based purely upon the interaction of raw heat upon these robust metal alloys (I'm certain there's a bloody host of more complex words and technical hocus pocus jargon for stipulating the very same thing), of essentially that same heat being applied to each alloy (thus no freaking junction differential) and, respectively those robust metal alloys seem to like heat, especially of the sort of clean heat containing little or no O2 and, of even lesser H2O is simply all that much better because, there's simply no oxidisation issues whatsoever and, thereby no corrosion whatsoever and, if that heat source was primarily of dense (thermall conductive) CO2 along with a little N2 thrown in, such as what's existing on Venus, then the thermal conduction is going to be vastly much superior to anything Earth and, that's 15+^3 times better off then of anything Mars (besides, Mars is simply too freaking damn cold for nearly any sort of energy production, short of that being fully thermonuclear and, so far we can't seem to even get that sort of energy of any consequence to the surface of Mars).

Update: January 04, 2003   Regarding CO2-->CO/O2; I have identified some further specs on the zirconia (ZYC) composite, that of its dimensional stability being good for 1923 K (1650 C) and, it appears that at the operating temperature of 1250 deg.C the cell/membrane resistance can be as low as 10 ohms per cm3, where higher temperatures are obviously those of creating lesser resistance.

There are many technical reference/support files on CO2-->CO/O2-->O2, such as at this "" web sight is where I've learned that on a nasty cold Mars, estimated at roughly 12 kw consumption produces 1.36 kg (3 lb) per hour of pure O2. As another quote from that page "Oxygen can be produced by passing CO2 through a zirconia electrolysis cell at 800 to 1000deg C. Twenty to thirty percent of the CO2 dissociates into oxygen and carbon monoxide."  I'm assuming that 12 kw is mostly that amount being introduced as to heat those zirconia membranes as well as for pumping the cold and pathetically thin CO2 at relatively good pressure ratios through the process, whereas on Venus the amount of energy for heating the zirconia membrane as well as the CO2 is going to be that of essentially what's being derived as a thermal byproduct, of the heat exchanging taking place as for generating kilowatts of essentially warm-junction created electrons and subsequently powering a good deal of air conditioning, thus unlike anything Mars, little other electrical drive is to be needed, perhaps making the electrical load or demand per 120 kg of O2 per hour more likely something in the order of 120 watts consumption as for any direct electrolysis process (actually because of the ambient pressure on Venus, human life could be sustained on a mere fraction of that amount, leaving the vast bulk of CO/O2 for rocket fuel and oxidiser), as little if any is applied for the physical zirconia membrane nor product heating, other then of powering the 2.5:1 air conditioning compressor that's already delivering 1687K (1414C) for sustaining the membrane cell oven as well as thermally fueling those warm-junction thermopiles, all of which is performing well above any of the standards being applied for Mars, where at the sustained 1650+K any further electrolysis current may be all of 1% that of the Mars application, where introducing a mere 120 watts could push the membrane towards 1675+K (that's still nearly 250K below maximum continuous operation). The available I/O cell/membrane pressure differential (including beyond the thermal expansion valve) of this preliminary circuit is roughly 187.5 Bar (2719 psi), which if need be, that differential can easily be further increased via an extraction pump. The actual pressure drop or differential requirement through the zirconia membrane is undetermined but, obviously whatever that issue can be regulated to suit the task at hand.

If the CO2/N2 flow were to be .225 m3 per minute per plasma path of the main cluster of thermopile tubes and, of the remainder of 0.1 m3 per minute as from the N2/O2 route, then after heat-exchanging through the N2/O2 route should offer at least twice the cool down allotment and thus, I would expect to obtain the N2/O2 end product at something less then 1000K, thermal expanding that back down to 400K before injecting into the EVA air conditioning intake of the recirculation plenum within.

The following raw system diagram is of a concept depicting a purely thermally powered and of a CO2/N2-->CO/N2/O2-->N2/O2 alternative that is not necessarily so precise, nor complete, nor even entirely accurate (so sue me).

The actual volume of compressed and then extracted CO2 may need to become somewhat greater then of my initial (task dependent) estimate of processing 1 cubic meter per minute, but what the hell, at least the general notion is sufficiently correct, as that merely intended to further demonstrate and eventually refine upon what's necessary for us frail humans (as though that even matters, as you'll soon either adjust or die trying), so that even this environment of HELL can be tolerated. Then besides that immeasurable issue of surviving Hell, at the nifty nighttime pressure of 75 bar (roughly the elevation of 5 km); perhaps hot is simply no longer all that hot anymore, at least not to an evolved lizard sort of individual, as temperature and of the acclimated "comfort zone" for life is somewhat relative to pressure. In other words, at the very least (unless cold fusion becomes the next reality) there's a whole lot more life supporting energy worth, as to be extracted from heat, then ever to be obtained from all the dry ice of Mars.

Because I've planned upon driving the compressor and vacuum pumps or radial turbines via a variable inverter power source (frequency/speed controlled), I've recently updated this drawing as for depicting a maximum 2.5:1 compressor and the 1:3 extraction Vacuum pump. Though this effort is primitive and preliminary as based upon fundamental Gas Laws, as I have not been taking into account for a host of inefficiencies nor actual thermal differentials, none the less, I've corrected upon some of the calculations or estimates, so that at least the flow of ideas and research can be referenced to something that's been ricocheting about my village idiot brain.

This unit or combination/cocktail of technologies is certainly doable with our existing knowhow and of available materials (presumably of ceramics and otherwise Titanium and/or of Tungsten alloys). The heat exchanging thermopiles are basically robust metal tubes constructed of Alumel/Chromel alloys (somewhat like a stack of metalic washers of alternating alloy, except fully fused as into one), friction or implosion fused together at 1 mm or lesser thickness per alloy/junction, of roughly 25 mm diameter with a passage way or opening of roughly 19 mm diameter and of each thermopile stack of perhaps one meter in length. The potential energy delivery per kg is roughly estimated at 500 watts (I believe more energy/kg is ultimately possible, especially at lesser per alloy thickness and of the greater operating temperatures and/or of alternate alloys). The air conditioning or BTU extraction principals are rather conventional, as fortunately a high density CO2 environment makes for a fairly good thermal conductor for thermal transfer, thus more then compensating for the otherwise relatively poor thermal conduction qualities of the Alumel/Chromel alloys (we're really not all that concerned about efficiencies, as the thermal heat source is not only virtually unlimited and absolutely free, but suitably pure, liberated of any corrosion as well as nearly oxidisation free as well). The extraction of O2 is by way of one of many viable alternatives having been well proven and even thoroughly documented by NASA, as well as by many others. Thus I'm merely allowing and/or following the leadership of others in order to pursue with a certainty, that if push comes to shove, this contraption or of one better is going to work.

Technically, the greater potential of metalic alloys delivering electrons via a sort of warm-fusion thermopile is that of 4000 juctions per meter and, if utilizing the type-E alloys, that's 4000 X 68 uV per degree C. A meter stack of such and we're talking about .272 VDC per degree C, X 402C (675K) which offers 109 VDC per meter and, for type-E alloys that's not even being thermally limited until we exceed an alloy temperature of 900C (1178K), so that basically 100 VDC under load could become the standard of what a meter's worth of type-E tube could deliver, at perhaps a KW of load per kg of alloy, where even 0.1 KW/kg worth of such energy could be worth doing.

THE THERMAL PROCESS: (applying fundamental laws of thermal dynamics)

1) compress the ambient atmosphere of CO2/N2 at a ratio of 2.5:1
          @75 bar and 675K, that yiels 675 X 2.5 = 1687.5 K and/or 187.5 Bar.

2) pass this thermally charged (sort of CO2/N2 plasma) directly into the thermopile heat-exchanger tubes
          the plan being is to cause a good amount of electron flow as well as for extracting roughly 400 K

3) releave the heat-extracted (1280K) CO2/N2 via a thermal expansion valve, into the EVA heat-exchanger manifold.

4) allowing this pressure released CO2/N2 flow to migrate into and through the EVA suit heat-exchanger manifold.

5) Further evacuate upon the EVA suit heat-exchanger manifold with a discharge Vacuum pump of 1:3 ratio
          we now have obtained a total pressure/thermal differential of 5.5:1 which reacts directly upon the 1280K CO2/N2

6) blow the EVA suit atmosphere of N2/O2 through the thermal heat-exchanger.

7) the discharge of the Vacuum pump to ambiant should offer (675K - 265K) = 410K
          potentially this 410K worth of CO2/N2/CO should be directed to flow externally over the thermopile tubes as further cooling.

Obviously one can't achieve perpetual energy, as there are a number of conversion efficiency losses as well as greater resistance issues to contend with. However "warm fusion" is certainly as nearly perpetual as such ever gets, especially when our thermal furnace is absolutely free as well as representing zilch worth of corrosion. If some day "cold-fusion" can offer the same thing, except with the help of introducing whatever Dry-Ice, then Mars will likely become a viable consideration for our manned expeditions, though solar/cosmic and galactic radiation will likely eliminate any chance of your returning home, other than in a body bag.

I fully realized the energies to function compressors and/or vacuum pumps is an obvious technical consideration worth discussing, though I believe I've roughly addressed the issue of supplying energy with the potential of the 500 watts/kg estimate worth of warm-junction thermopiles, as the more energy one needs, the more of those nifty thermopiles would become involved, along with the side benefits being all that much more thermal heat-exchanging (creating surplus cold should be worth something, especially on Venus). However, the likely prospect of obtaining an R-100+ thermo-suit (that's 99% effective or 1% influx of exterior BTU's) seems hardly an issue. Even if system and EVA suit weight should become an issue, the buoyancy of what a good number of H2 containment spheres could manage to offset is somewhat like a packing along a personal weather balloon or of whatever other buoyancy appendage could easily accommodate the overall requirement, as this buoyancy capability of even N2 should more then compensate for whatever the EVA suit entails.

I've located another old conversion factor, that of the "specific heat" of CO2 at 1 bar and of 40 deg.F. being 0.6 (that's 60% as compared to pure water at being 1 or 100%), where this factor may not fully apply to the Venus situation, as the CO2 is obviously much hotter and the desity is so much better but, at least it's yet another typical consideration that did not materialize itself from anything NASA nor from those opposing my every move, as obviously that's because this 0.6 factor of specific heat is another example of how one could go about calculating or estimating the energy requirements as for extracting BTUs or VTUs (Venus Thermal Units).

Perhaps the other need as for compiling N2 will soon be of further interest, as pure O2 is certainly never a good thing for life as we know it, as well as the fact that O2 is far more dangerous then H2, as amounts of H2 mixed in with any other element is entirely harmless, as long as significant amounts of that nasty O2 is not involved. Under such ambient pressure, the compressed volume of O2 for sustaining life even as we know it should become substantially lesser than of here on Earth. Since I haven't received nor discovered an estimate upon such, as a guess I'll just bet we're looking at not one tenth (2%), perhaps even as little as 1/40th (0.5%) could eventually be acclimated to, in which case the remaining volume within the EVA suit should be that displaced by N2, making the air conditioned atmosphere within at something under 1% O2 (1% at 75+bar is actually quite a good deal of O2 molecules, like 3.75 times more then of 20% O2 offers here on Earth) and, the remainder of 99% N2 seems entirely doable. Thus the next phase will likely involve something about extracting or compiling N2 from the external environment, from which I believe already holds 3.5+% worth of free N2. Since there is such a notable difference in the size of CO2 verses the N2 molecule, possibly through another form of electrolysis or centrifuge reaction or just that of a simple membrane filter may suffice for that of obtaing whatever amounts of N2.

I'm also thinking along the lines of using a somewhat modified zirconia electrolysis cell process that could likely be configured as to pass N2/O2 (blocking and/or rejecting the CO to atmosphere). The actual percentage of N2 extraction from the Venus environment is somewhat unknown for the moment (since until now there's certainly been little if any commercial need for understanding such technology).

Voltage generation via alloy thermopiles is certainly not an issue (1001 K-junctions = 40 vdc @1273 K) and, of good current delivering capability (considering the extremely low impedance of these dual-alloy tubes) is also not an issue. The mere toasty CO2 environment of Venus (675K nighttime @5+km) absolutely insures an entirely corrosion free existence (bare mild steel simply wouldn't rust nor corrode/oxidise in a thousand years). Thermal insulation from essentially conduction mode is yet another non issue (IR mode being not such a factor) and, besides tough silica or ceramic fiber composites for highly effective thermal barriers, adding small/micro-spheres of H2 @1 Bar for Venus may soon become their world's best answer for such insulation properties (obtaining R=100 for that of an EVA suit and perhaps of R-256 for surface habitats is doable), as well is applied H2 as for whatever buoyancy can easily be had (H2 being sufficiently safe on Earth and absolutely safer yet on Venus, as vacuum extracted and distill processed from those thick nighttime clouds which must containing mega tonnes worth of H2SO4 [reported as 30% sulfuric acid], thus offering tonnes of pure H2O and subsequently volumes of H2 for achieving 65+kg/m3 worth of nighttime buoyancy without even hardly trying).

The EVA suit at idle or static pre-start mode (initially based upon a 1001 stack of Alumel/Chromel alloys per thermopile tube);  this appliance contraption of series/parallel thermopiles could easily offer 32 VDC at 675K. With 4 stacks in series would allow either 64 VDC at 675K or how about 37 VDC @500K (along with the reserve 5th stack and we're looking at 5.5 VDC at a mere 300K, where certainly that's enough for driving illumination and full two-way communications, as prior to one's waltzing into hotter places). That of a dedicated electronics power source thermopile could just as well be comprised of type-E alloys and of suitably more thermopile junctions, thus being purely ambient temperature dependent but entirely capable of independently powering considerable illumination, communications and whatever arrays of instrumentation from 300K or of whatever greater temperature (maximum continuous @1150K), where the nighttime environment of 675K would independently afford a pasive 26+mv/junction.

Remember that this preliminary conceptual configuration, or perhaps that of a mad scientist invention on a little too much LSD, is more then just a little rough, in fact, it's totally way outside my current expertise and, I do believe it's even something that's beyond anything NASA, especially since Club NASA sees absolutely nothing whatsoever on Venus as to be getting excited about and furthermore, there's been no public funding involved, which thereby thoroughly disqualifies this engineering contribution at being worth something lesser then toilet paper, of which I do believe NASA needs no stinking toilet paper because, as I've stipulated upon this adage before; as for a number of security reasons, NASA has no toilets (in other words, whatever goes into Club NASA stays there indefinitely), and I'll bet you thought those were merely fat people working for NASA.

The entire dual tasking configuration of warm-junction thermopiles as heat exchangers and for accommodating a considerable resource of producing electrons, associated along with a ceramic compressor, a ceramic vacuum pump, blowers, inverters and the zirconia-based electrolysis cells could easily weigh in at 50 kg and even a whole lot more if that's determined necessary. Even at 50 kg, that's not exactly your typical back-pack for hitting the greens with, but that certainly producing enough energy as for illuminating, extracting BTU's and acquiring O2, all thanks to that already toasty CO2, as without such pre existing heat our surface expedition would need to be nuclear powered and/or entirely dependent upon a rapidly depleting source of imported energy (both are thoroughly bad ideas).

I initially selected the compression ratio of 2.25:1, then upgraded to 2.5:1, as for accommodating a sufficient initial super-heat process necessary for charging the zirconia ceramic material into a good state of electrical conduction (the maximum CO2 plasma flow tollerated by the type-K alloys being 1750 K would reasonably limit the initial compression to at most 2.5:1). If somewhat lesser temperature is to be required, then either the compressor is electro-mechanically slowed and/or a lesser compression ratio is initially selected, then also thermopiles can be of those driven at lesser temperatures and, if need be type-E alloys can replace type-K in order to acquire 60% more electron flow should those alloys be operated at or below 1150 K (CO2/N2 plasma flow for type-E could be tollerated as high as 1273 K, taking a mere 1.75:1 compression in order to achieve this level when and if the external environment reaches 725K, unlikely even at high noon if situated at 5+km).

Of course, 50 kg worth of EVA back-pack as situated on Venus is but 45.5 kg (100 Earthly like pounds). However, to be recalling upon those H2 microsphere insulation aspects of this proposed R-100 EVA suit, that such a thermally well insulated suit consideration should actually subtract something and, if to be including the added buoyancy of the N2/O2 occupant interior, perhaps we should be factoring in at least a -10 kg benefit, placing us at a combined thermo back-pack and EVA suit combination of 35.5 kg (78 Earth like lbs). In fact, if this EVA suit was a bit on the side of being bloated, at the elevation site of 5 km we should be capable of recovering 25 kg by further calculating in for the buoyancy considerations alone, thus the EVA suit (excluding it's environmental acclamation power and air conditioning unit) could weigh in at 15 kg -25 kg buoyancy (think of this EVA suit as potentially representing -10 kg or, as being a scuba diver operating without lead weights, as without the EVA appliance secured (or otherwise tethered), the damn suit itself might float away).

Obviously I haven't drawn a sufficient graphic of what such a Earth/Venus Acclamation (EVA) suit might look like (sort of fat "moon suit" like, I would think), nor have I covered the endless "what if's", those upon which all of my loyal critics are sure to quickly point out, as to offering their pathetic ongoing proof that "nothing whatsoever exist on Venus" yet somehow pathetically frozen and radiated to death Mars is loaded with worthwhile life and, that I'm perhaps something far worse then any village idiot. Well, we certainly don't have to further aggravate those "Mars or bust" fools, as perhaps they've done enough damage over the past few decades to last all of humanity throughout this next century and then some.

Another obvious factor about my primitive sketch as depicting piston type compressor and/or vacuum pump, as these items could just as well be accommodated by a relatively small and electrically driven radial turbine compressor, and of the same for vacuum requirements. Since the 75 bar CO2 density is what it is (darn thick as compared to Earth air), there's certainly nothing preventing the efficient utilization of radial turbine elements (common alloy steels or ceramics should do quite nicely). As for these very same worthy considerations, the powering of any large rigid airship via CO/O2 fueled radial power turbine engines and subsequently that energy applied into ducted (presumably counter-rotating) turboprops or fan blades is just the ticket, of being nearly hydro dynamically many times more efficient then of any such aerodynamic applications here on Earth and, for equally making anything Mars into a pathetic joke (not that we can't do Mars, we just need to import nearly everything, taking at least another decade plus several hundred billions and, that's only if [fat chance] nothing goes terribly wrong).

The many belief's why I've come to anticipate that others besides myself should reconsider that all of this technology could actually work, those belief's have been based upon the reasonable assumptions and/or creditable knowledge of there existing sufficient technologies, that are each individually capable of their being combined into accommodating this multi-tasking goal, by which this Earth/Venus/Acclamation (EVA) power contraption of essentially creating life support from heat has once again forced newish things upon our belief's, as for supporting the very idea that it's actually possible to visit Hell. As for the "what if" we actually needed to conquer the Venus surface and of those inhabiting such (presumably we're talking about mounting this feat during their season of nighttime), where a fairly good amount of electrical energy per individual is to be involved in cooling off our butts, as otherwise it's going to get seriously hot under the collar, as well as under just about everything else, so much so that of our sweaty BO and bad breath will likely become the least of our problems. If I had a choice, I'd elect staying inside the rigid shuttle/airship craft, as fully air conditioned and a cold beer in hand, cheering on the troops but always keeping ready as for making a quick exit back to VL2, especially if anything looked the least bit like a seriously big metro airship headed my way.

Don't get me wrong; I'd be the first to stay and fight if I thought such was a good idea, although perhaps keeping one's distance for the initial contact phase is likely way more then just being a good idea. As far as I can predict, keeping our distance by that of our remaining at VL2 should due quite nicely. Until I knew otherwise, a few surface deployments of those robotic audio/video transceivers (as powered and cooled by the same technology as the EVA suits) should suffice. Ever since NASA and many others failed to make inter-planetary contact during the latest near juncture, there's no certainty that we'll be received with open tentacles or whatever and, as bad as astronomy humor is here on Earth, especially if you're seriously hot and bothered, humor could represent an automatic death sentence on Venus, so perhaps no "God" jokes or "knock knock's" and, try real hard not to even crack a smile, even if one of them breaks wind (in the animal world, the mere showing of teeth is an aggressive posture).

Since it certainly wont make a good first impression if we arrive looking and smelling like just any over-toasted flaming pop-tart. Besides our having a respectable rigid airship, having a good EVA suit might be just the ticket. Not that we need to even do this surface thing, as I've often stipulated that the VL2 platform would be sufficient, with perhaps an excursion to/from VL2 as for our cruising about just below those relatively cool nighttime clouds, say operating at 40 km could be something in the range of subtracting 300 K, making the exterior of our rigid airship at perhaps 375 K. Unless visual and/or of whatever alternative communications is a total bust, we simply should not have to step foot on that toasty surface, which could prove as being yet another good thing, especially of NASA gets involved, as they wont have to produce any documentation nor phony pictures proving we ever walked on the Venus surface, thus keeping instep with our previous lunar adventures.

Of course, those zirconia-based electrolysis cells, as intended primarily for their extracting and thus providing O2 are also providing a good deal of surplus CO, which is certainly another viable energy/fuel resource worth contemplating. A small personal power turbine fueled by such atmospheric derived elements of CO/O2 could provide a great deal of electrical performance boost, then obviously of enough EVA suit air conditioning for that of our producing snow-cones (I would have to believe that a snow cone chuck full of sweet flavored ice could easily become worth all the riches on Venus). As far as our shuttle/airship is concerned, with it's engines (CO/O2 rocket powered turbines and subsequent turboprops) operating directly upon the CO2-->CO/O2 elements and then perhaps supplemented by whatever a little H2O2 could provide, that of such an airship cabin interior and of the energies to sufficiently navigate at relatively good speeds (upward of 250 knots below the cloud base and obviously much faster above those same clouds) all this seems entirely possible, as within Earthly known science and physics, where certainly this consideration of proven technology application is not the least bit negative nor the least allusional as compared to what's been coming out of our Mars adventures, which so far is squat and, there's nothing on the Mars horizon unless we be needing a serious load of dry-ice.

The actual pressure acclimated thermal environment at 75 bar, by which you and I might feel livable as to an Earth environment, this is likely going to become something a whole lot higher then you or I have been thinking about, as bio-physically adjusted to the ambient pressure of 75 bar, bodily fluids are simply not going to over-heat as the same criteria applies to Earth's environment. Thereby the eventual EVA suit interior may actually have to be thermally increased, thereby the energy needs for cooling us down will become greatly reduced and/or the need for insulation factors reduced. Obviously our exiting Venus and of returning to a 1 bar environment may prove the greater of challenges which lie ahead and, not the other way around.

Due to the "GUTH Venus" discoveries clearly depicting there actually being some rather significant artificial structures, a community of such along with rational infrastructure to boot, as such I believe in what Venus offers Earth is a whole lot more obtainable as well as a moral contribution, far better then of what NASA/NSA/DoD's puppet O'Keefe has been having to say (actually, if one carefully reads O'Keefe's words, other then of his supporting the "status quo" and of "wagging the dog", he's not really saying all that much, certainly not revealing upon anything new, but rather he's reading those scripts handed off to him by his true NSA/DoD bosses (a nice job if you can get it because, you apparently don't have to really do anything, least of all take up any responsibility whatsoever).

Every arrow point needs a good tail; O'Keefe makes for a very good tail   (much like a Peacock's tail is something truly great to be looking at).

If I can possibly go out of my way, so as to making my point any clearer, that our Club NASA has been seriously running amuck and, taking far more then it's fair share of lives along with the ride, simultaneously stripping our resources bare, then I'll eventually do just that. In spite of NASA, as well as inspite of their following of cult members and othe so called higher learning cults worshimping everything NASA (like Cambridge and of most other pretentious universities), Venus has lots to offer, certainly vast sums more then of anything Mars and of good grief, quantums more then of anything Pluto. Naturally, that of your valued input of whatever's happening or not within NASA will be of interest (just in case I'm actually asked some day as to straighten up any portion of the mess, where the more I know the less likely I'll be firing the wrong sort of folks). At least that way they wont be calling me "Pink-Slip Guth" for doing nothing.


Yes indeed folks, of all the things that I'll have to concur with;  even in their long season of nighttime and at the elevations of 5+km, it's still damn toasty hot on Venus (where nighttime has been reported as typically 25K lesser along with at least another -7K/km of elevation, where combined that's merely -60K from 735K = 675K, though I've tended to calculate that season of nighttime somewhat towards being as low as 625K at the elevation of 5+km), but that's still only too hot as for those arrogant fools within certain prestigious astronomy/astrophysics groups and nearly all of their braille Borg followers of such mystical and wizardly NASA cults. As otherwise any freaking village idiot should have known or soon realize that of fairly primitive thermal management technology applications (without ever their having to discover nor in need of anything radio, somewhat exactly like evolution and history accomplished right here on Earth), one seriously greenhouse motivated soul can obviously manage quite nicely at extracting BTUs, perhaps even a little more appropriately VTU's (Venus Thermal Units), that's irregardless of whatever the ambient heat factor is (short of everything becoming solar/thermonuclear) and, especially being more so effective at thermal heat-exchanging because of the purity and of such good density and subsequent thermal conductivity of what all that terrific atmospheric ocean being comprised mostly of CO2 (+3.5% N2) has to offer. Of course, you certainly don't have to budge off that "nondisclosure" bar stool if you wanted to fry yourself as well as others into a crisp, just exactly like the bulk of those sanctimonious jokers currently opposing everything Venus have been doing for at least the past 13 years and counting (actually another couple of decades before that time is a whole lot more truth than not).

It seems that nearly 40 years worth of utter arrogance and sanctimonious lying, feeding us disinformation, just to suit their ulterior cold-war motives and reinforce their inflated contemptuous egos is perhaps all that you and I can ever expect to see in our lifetimes. As certainly before that time (pre Apollo), I could have fully understood and even appreciated a few of those misconceptions or allusions about Venus, of what was considered at the time as that of an unlikely planet as for life as we know it to ever exist. Actually, today that statement or phrase needs to be thoroughly modified or otherwise re-qualified as to reflect the intelligence that we supposedly know to exist, such as Earth's intelligence becoming vastly inferior as to whatever managed to evolve itself and subsequently survive on Venus in spite of our stupidity, as those Venus intelligence levels were obviously never as "doom and gloom" worthy nor "cloak and dagger" involved with such pathetic ulterior motives, as so responsible for wasting such valuable talents, time and at such tremendous cost in resources, such as what's been persisting within the greater cloak and dagger worlds of our NASA/NSA/DoD, of which seems to have recently become a virtual black hole of whatever intelligence and/or that of an absolute reverse or anti-matter of intelligence (as formal "dog wagging" and disinformation R-US), very much acting like anti-matter acting against truth except, at this juncture we're still deeply embroiled in our crack anti-intelligence mode of searching for those invisible WMDs, so much so that we're not even smart enough to recognize the terribly misguided over-reactions taking place before our eyes.

Regarding the new EVA technology;  There are certain respected limits to even this thermal/conversion technology. For one certainty, the external ambient environment can't exceed the thermal tolerance of various alloys and materials of construction. Fortunately, even the worse case Venus daytime "death Valley" scenario of 750K is well within the available/known tolerances of what this EVA suit and of the appliance powering and cooling such has to offer. Of the suit electronics and/or electro-mechanical considerations would be those residing within, as such surrounded by the maximum of a 300K or lesser environment.

Of far greater value to science as well as humanity, this will always be reinforced by anything the likes of you or others can contribute, towards our discovering more about the positive considerations of any humanly obtainable planet such as Venus, as how to best utilize the available resources, as well as for those resources of Venus, then further realizing upon Darwin's evolution of the species may soon have to include whatever has managed to survive on Venus (I'm focusing initially on the nocturnal and perhaps cold blooded lizard types), all of which obviously excludes absolutely every fiber of what NASA and even of most every religion seems so unwilling to stand up for (God forbid, truth!). Actually, I'm no longer certain of what if anything our NASA stands for, other then decades of cloaking efforts on behalf of NSA/DoD agendas and, as for interfering and/or undermining just about anything other that's outside of their cozy little cloak and dagger box (trust me; I'm being nice about this).

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