Some Pro/Con issues of the LSE/ESE

This is where I believe the Guth Moon Dirt Express beats the Edwards Starlight Express hands down

Keeping this tid bit in mind that;  I'm not the one suggesting and/or insisting that we should be doing any such space elevators whatsoever. However, as long as so many others are so focused and intent upon blowing trillions on such endeavors, of further risking our astronauts and of maintaining if not increasing the unnatural and unhealthy environmental imbalance by continuing to create artificial CO2 on behalf of expediting global warming, then I'm of the opinion, that just perhaps there's another alternative or two that's been overlooked, somewhat like how our moon as well as Venus has been overlooked for decades.

I've stated upon this issue before, that of modern day and of those relatively small satellite missions (such as TRACE being 250 kg), and of even smaller robotic probes are vastly more efficient and for the most part far better suited for achieving the technical as well as scientific task at hand, while at the least risk to the environments of both worlds, whereas a hundred such robotic missions can be obtained for the investment of a single manned expedition, and that's inclusive of those robotic missions outperforming nearly anything that required a shuttle like launch. These days especially, even enormous payloads can be robotically delivered and auto-deployed, though the best bang for the buck are of those somewhat compact or micro satellites and/or probes that utilize smaller and vastly more compacted technology, thus vastly smaller delivery rockets and subsequently far less CO2 generating for Earth.

If the intent of the ESE lure is to enhance our capabilities of delivering all sorts of stuff into orbit and beyond, for that to eventually include manned missions to wherever, then there's still the horrific need as to create the complex infrastructure of every mission, then to launch everything and hope for the best, thus the CO2 per pound ratio is similar if not offset by the sheer volumes of items proposed as for being placed into orbit or beyond via the ESE program. So, where's the truth be told? ESE CO2 savings and/or prevention seems illusive if not entirely bogus?

If there were no limitations upon resources, as well as no alternatives on the books nor even on the horizon, then by all means we should expedite towards the ESE program. However, since 10% of what's already functioning in orbit is more than sufficient for Earth sciences and of most commercial needs, the bulk of the remainder being of dead horse issues and/or of cloak and dagger agendas, then obviously we (Earth) do not require great numbers of replacements nor newer satellites, though I believe we certainly should have been proficiently utilizing our moon as of decades ago, if for nothing else but as for a stable instrument platform that's been self propelled, remains steadfastly auto-aligned and is essentially indestructible, of which you can't possibly say that about anything man-made.

The following is my village idiot view of what's what, of the outsider looking in upon the ESE fiasco, seeing all sorts of smoke and mirrors being continually adjusted for maximum affect and, for the most part it's working, as most folks are these days so easily snookered by all the packaging hype, as well as by those "knock your socks off" NOVA class infomercials that tend to make NASA and those chosen to being associated, as near Gods of universal wisdom and of those utmost invaluable conditional morals.


The Earth Space Elevator, and of it's ESE-CM/ISS gateway

On the pro side of accomplishing an ESE:

1) it's certainly almost doable, at least someday this task will be expensively accomplished.

2) it will employ thousands of folks, 10 of thousands if you included those in engineering and manufacturing of related components and of those items intended for and/or for being launched via ESE.

3) it offers the potential of eventually (some day, as in decades from now) reducing the amounts of CO2 per pound, of that being a modus reduction from otherwise having to entirely rocket launch whatever.

4) it creates a rather nicely unified target that's well isolated from the rest of us, where most but not all of the fallout will NOT likely impact upon my home or office.

5) it draws down our worldly energy surplus, thus unburdening the rest of us from having to utilize such energy for factories and homes.

On the con side of doing an ESE (Earth Space Elevator):

0) At least for a decade after the fact, it will not directly deliver humans into space, unless TBI exposures are what's needed for those beneficial chemotherapy aspects.

1) It will initially cost at least 10 fold of what's being touted as 6 billion, actually at 100 fold cost will not include even a passenger capable usage, nor that of any humanly survivable CM/ISS. As to accomplish those traits would have to entail multiple ESE's and, of more likely than not, investments of trillions, thus assisting manned missions into orbit and/or of accommodating those intended for other worlds that may still be requiring conventional rockets, along with the all-inclusive conventions of a continuing build of CO2 being generated at the predictable rate of perhaps 100 times whatever tonnage is ultimately placed into outer space (ESE or not).

2) The energy budget for not only stationkeeping of the massive ESE-CM, but also of the mobile anchor platform, as well as for powering all those MW laser cannons, may demand in excess of a GW per hour, naturally that's 24/7 and, that's not even including the energy being consumed by all the other 10's of thousands commuting to/from as they're working primarily on behalf of and/or because of the ESE and related launch agendas.

3) Since the rather massive anchor-ship must move itself about, that sort of ruels out any conventional energy utility that any Earth based community could share upon.

4) the combined annual CO2 production (if to be including all human related activity interface) created by developing and implementing the ESE, initially and for perhaps decades to come, this process will easily exceed the CO2 build of conventional launch per tonne, and that's only if nothing goes horrifically wrong.

5) Tether build-up and subsequent daily repairs will never end, especially of the tether portion residing within the Van Allen zone of death, as for continually having to be restructured from receiving that much radiation impact plus solar driven particles plus just plain old impacts of other space debris that's not only traveling at great speeds but may be highly charged and thereby more than capable of taking out chucks of tether, and/or of merely degrading CNT GPa at the cellular/molecular level, including those micro chemical bonds, thus a continual repair/layering of spendy CNT will become a daily function of every pod delivery into space, at times this could become the sole function of a given tether pod, thus slowing the entire process down, as well as creating far less usable delivery tonnage than being touted.

6) Until a second ESE is established for the down elevator, most of the tether pods will have to be expendable, thus expensive unless the to/from is entirely devoted onto one tether sharing an individual pod or perhaps group/chain or caravan of pods per round trip sequence.

7) If the truth be known, of their Arthur Andersen accounting and of the ENRON methodology of implementing the ESE agenda follows in the traditional cloak and dagger footsteps of what our NSA/DoD accomplished so much under their ruse/guise of NASA, as then indeed, if the honest truth were to be known, those initial figures on whatever energy demand, of total package cost and of CO2 impact upon Earth will all be substantially greater than we're being informed, as there's certainly all the political motivation and of the means by which to implement this level of snookering upon the rest of us village idiots, so much so that we should perhaps just get out of their way or else, but not before paying them great homage and of accepting global warming as well as further inflation as a rather nasty fact of life.

8) A great part of the ESE energy budget as well as infrastructure impact and subsequent cost will soon become that of physically having to defend each ESE, not only from the likes of those Taliban but from ourselves, as well as from everyday debris and of those rather nasty solar maximum events, of defending from solar flak that we don't seem to have a freaking clue as to what can be done per say on behalf of sufficiently protecting the tether itself.

OOPS; I've got twice as many of those con issues as pro, therefor I must not appreciate or otherwise understand a great many good things about the virtues of the ESE plan of bankrupting us and/or of otherwise consuming what's left of our natural energy resources, all the while producing megatonnes of CO2 (among creating other known hazards if not carcinogens) at a substantial rate that's far greater than the touted savings.


The Lunar Space Elevator, or Moon Dirt Express, and of it's LSE-CM/ISS gateway

On the pro side of accomplishing an LSE (Lunar Space Elevator and CM/ISS gateway):

1) It's entirely doable, within existing technology as well as talents. Since there's no atmospheric nor Van Allen zone to contend with, the starting gravity is but 1/6th, there's also no recorded debris field and of no satellite issues, as such the thermal derated basalt fiber GPa of 4.45 is way more than sufficient, at 1% the impact of accommodating the ESE CNT tether fiasco.

2) Because the LSE can become nearly entirely robotic, it will employ hundreds of folks, a few thousand if you included those in engineering and manufacturing of related components, of those items intended for and/or being assembled/outfitted at the CM/ISS and subsequently deployed efficiently towards their ultimate destination via the LSE gateway. That's offering my perception of perhaps 10% of the ESE employment requirement, that's because the LSE needs no 24/7 defense perimeter nor the sorts continual tether repairs or of energy demands imposed by the ESE fiasco.

3) The LSE offers the assurance of reducing and/or minimizing the amounts of CO2 per pound of what's delivered into space, of less than of whatever would have been created for otherwise rocket launching in order for that to reach the LSE-CM/ISS depot, as utilizing smaller rocket packages of far fewer tonnes are nearly always better off, as being more manageable than having to launch via extremely large boosters and/or of recovering shuttle class missions, or of those fried body parts.

4) Security is nearly a non issue, as the LSE simply does NOT create a unified target that's so easily accessible to others, whereas in any event, NO fallout will likely impact upon any portion of Earth. Even if the LSE-CM/ISS were to bust lose, we'd have weeks if not more than likely months as for doing something appropriate.

5) Accommodating tonnes of moon dirt and/or crushed moon rock, making that cheaply available for radiation shielding of manned missions is a done deal, as far as resolving the rather paramount needs of shielding yourself from the radiation and pesky meteorite environment of open space, as not to mention of offering a fairly good physical impact shield to boot.

6) In addition to providing mission critical shielding mass, providing nearly any amount of tether dipole energy and/or fuel worthy elements as derived from lunar substances is nearly another done deal, at least a tonne of others seem to believe this can be so, as representing a thoroughly terrific if not somewhat less testy opportunity. Thus making missions to places like Mars and of those far better to visit, like Venus, into becoming entirely possible as well as survivable.

7) Affording a rather sizable CM/ISS abode that's entirely radiation safe as well as space debris safe, for accommodating extended terms of staying on for years if need be, this potential has certainly become another done deal.

8) Giving efficient access to the lunar surface for human habitat and/or mining is what the inituial LSE will accomplish, as within duplex or two-way transport pods, thus dozens of small and energy efficient pods can travel their way to/from the CM/ISS at the same time (no atmosphere means nearly no pod speed limits).

9) Obtaining energy (perhaps far more than of the entire LSE infrastructure demands) via the tether dipole, as well as whatever solar PV and, of storing and subsequenyly distributing that energy from a pair of massive counter rotating (zero gravity) flywheels is yet another technology done deal.

10) Affording one of the best ever defensive locations (outpost) for our establishing a LSE-CM/ISS laser cannon, of suitable energy (100 GW @0.5 milliradian or less) for defending Earth and/or from any selected population on Earth, from the sorts of threats imposed by the likes of Taliban or perhaps far worse (the Pope if you're Cathar related or even affiliated).

11) Lacking an atmosphere, there's obviously no induced weather dynamics nor tether harmonics, none of those testy lighting strikes to fret over, none of those induced tether twisting oscillations, nor of any Taliban piloted airliners in sight, as well as essentially no speed limits nor associated up/down friction. If that's not a worthy collection of done deals, then I don't know what is.

12) The LSE tether GPa degrade caused from galactic as well as cosmic radiation becomes somewhat more of a consistant factor that's uniformally applied to the entire LSE, that plus the fact that basalt fibers are robustly more capable of sustaining whatever the sun has to offer with respect to the notable degrade impact as upon CNT fibers, especially since there's no stinking Van Allen zone of Death that's representing nearly a thousand fold increase in radiation as well as debris exposure, over the vastly prefferable virtues of having just about anything associated near to lunar L1 (within the zone of opposing gravity wells, this null offeres about as much peace and tranquility from space debris as you're going to get, at least until you exit our solar system).

13) because this LSE-CM/ISS is being equally balanced between an aligned pair of relatively stable gravity-wells, dynamically compensated for the 5% lunar orbit variation by the interactive LSE-CCM, the lunar surface anchors can remain fixed, thus permitting base sites established at each of the tether anchors.

14) Having obtained lunar surface access and of hopefully establishing institutions of various considerations, I'd have to believe those returning from their "Mars or bust" mission, of obtaining those mutated radiation proof as well as freezer proof microbes that are more than likely lethal as all get out to all of humanity and of nearly everything other that lives on Earth, whereas this LSE along with multiple surface habitats would greatly help to provide those exposed Mars mission crew members with their biological safe-house for life, necessary as a result of their possibly surviving the Mars surface radiation exposures but likely infected with Mars whatever microbes.

15) I'm not all together certain but, I do believe there's a few dozen other positive and highly moral attributes worth considering. Unfortunately, that may have to include various opportunities for the likes of continuing our NSA/DoD cloak and dagger cold-war agendas, unless of course China gets their LSE established first (remember folks, there's actually only room for one of these LSE suckers, so it's sort of first come first served, as in "finders keepers", so we'd better start being be nicer to folks capable of establishing any sort of LSE homestead).

The term or phrase "done deal":
This was intended to represent that it's essentially already engineered and/or well established and/or understood within well accepted standards and of the parameters of what can be affordably managed, such as within relatively limited budgets and of the current level(s) of technology and expertise, and/or it's entirely "off the shelf" sort of speak.

Remember that I've never stipulated those grand cold-wars days are over, far from it, as the search for those infamous WMDs continues and, of our hidden intentions upon ruling Earth progresses. In order for that Godly agenda to happen, we'll be in need of as many flying ABLs, as well as lunar surface deployed and/or LSE-CM/ISS stationed laser cannons (those of multi selective spectrum technology) as we can possibly deploy. As unfortunately, purely IR heat isn't always the ultimate counter ethnic solution. Though perhaps the moon and of it's LSE will only be utilized for purely our mutual defensive needs, equally shared by the entire population of Earth, as that could happen about the same time as Hell freezes over, which at the present rate of our advancing and/or expediting our very own global warming, Hell isn't going to freeze over anytime soon.

I almost forgot; regarding the con side of doing an LSE (Lunar Space Elevator):

0) According to those objecting to the facts of life, opposing the truth at every opportunity and, of thinking that Earth is their center of all things good and important, in which instance their laws of physics can only be applied to an ESE, whereas an LSE represents an impossible as well as meaningless quest (period!). Sorry I ever asked.

1) Everyone on Earth can respectfully see exactly what's going on, so that hidden agendas simply aren't going to fly. By accommodating a relatively small and energy efficient item of an SAR receiving aperture, placed on the lunar surface, will afford all that care to see truly incredable lunar resolutions of 1/2 radar frequency wavelenght, that's at least capable of 10 mm raw at 16 bit or better (talk about BIG-Brother watching your every move, day or night).

2) Large rocket launches from Earth, that previously needed to include massive payload shielding attributes (especially if that payload is of humans) and tonnes of additional mission critical fuel, need not be the case, thus placing many of the various big rocket launch cartels into near bankruptcy, ecconomically replaced by relatively smaller and faster delivery formats that will accommodate missions that can be assembled into something larger, as completed and refueled at the LSE-CM/ISS dirt depot in the lunar sky, before being sent off for accomplishing whatever their task (that's inclusive of accommodating those returning into Earth orbits, such as stationkeeping at E-L1 or E-L2).

3) There simply will no longer be enough artificial CO2 created for Earth's global warming agenda, thus foiling yet another global energy drain and subsequent domination by the most powerful, thereby equally foiling any simultaneous population control agenda. The likes of NSA/DoD may have to find another cloak.

4) Perhaps thousands of State and Federal jobs will be lost for ever, as certain state and federal prisons can eventually be transferred to the lunar surface, or more than likely situated just below the lunar surface. In need of no door locks nor guards and, of permitting only lunar nighttime EVAs unless there's deep (TBI) chemotheraphy needed. Thus the "not in my back yard" provision is entirely resolved, and then some.

5) The moon could start to stink, as we proceed load it up with all of our garbage and even nuclear waste and of all those disrespectful inmates, whereas in no time at all there'd also be those testy GreenPeace tree-huggers as well as those anti-everything sorts protesting all over the moon.

6) I'm certain there's more to being said against doing a LSE than you can shake that flaming stick at but, I'm also certain that others opposing my discoveries and subsequent research will gladly provide their ample negative comments at absolutely no charge. So why should I have to bother?


Packaging is nearly everything:
As infomercials and PR is so handsomely packaged these days, NASA has once again polished the living hell out of this ESE "Starlight Express", as our American salvation, though rather it's really their own butt salvation that taking place. Getting the outside community into another frenzy in order to bolster the image and supposed forthright intentions of NASA, as though NSA/DoD are now a thing of the past, of which this ruse just might actually work, after all, the likes of Walter Cronkite bought into the Apollo thing, hook line and sinker, then I too was convinced, as in thoroughly snookered into believing that all was well and good with our NASA world, at least until I'd started discovering a few too many items that others should have managed or at least better recognized as worthy discovery contentions, as well as until I started to uncover that there were technology as well as so many unusual documentation gaps (black holes of supposed technology as well as skewed physics information) that simply shouldn't be.

Put up or shut up:
The most convincing evidence that we're all being snookered by those having "the right stuff" is, the unexpected voids of information associated along with all the unexpected flak I've received over my interpretations of those not so believable Apollo missions, then equally with respect to what's more likely than not worthy about Venus. The nagging fact that we have NOT ONE interactive lunar surface probe, nothing seismic, nothing acoustical, no radiation reporting, not even any thermal data and absolutely nothing whatsoever as interactively looking back at Earth, let alone of any SAR receiving aperture that's capable of supporting a look-see at other planets in great detail as well as for spotting any number of NEO, is all way too strange. Even the supposed laser measurements that were supposedly aided along by those reflector placements are simply no match for otherwise obtaining what the raw target surface area at even the 10% reflective index accommodates, thus there's still no hard irrefutable evidence of such reflectors nor of so many other touted experiments as for their being humanly deployed (only the possibility of robotic deployments, of which as I've stipulated, we still have absolutely nothing whatsoever situated on the moon).

Perhaps the moon is simply no more (as in "off limits"):
For something that's so affecting Earth, influencing and/or directly affecting Earth's climate through tidal forces, we still know absolutely nothing of the origin of the moon, nor of the basalt (bulk) material of the moon, nothing of the enormous mystery energy that's been responsible for not only sustaining it's orbital speed but of supposedly shoving/accelerating the moon away from Earth at the rate of 38 mm/year, thus considerably increasing the speed of the moon in spite of there being all of the usual friction of at least 6^6 atoms/m3 (if not a solar generated borage of perhaps 6^8 atoms/m3) of mostly hydrogen plus having to contend along with whatever other heavier elements that so happen to include solar generated space weather that's chuck full of associated heavy particles. Then there's at least some importance of so much other measurable debris and of the ever present Earthly gravitational influence back upon lunar issues. The ongoing fact that our moon is so far representing the one and only orb offering such a synchronic rotational alignment, that's remained in such absolute perfect center on center gravity-well alignment with Earth (even though Earth is hardly representative of being symmetrically evenhanded when it comes down to our gravitational pull) is yet another mystery or phenomena that's been thoroughly ignored. This fundamental lack of having specific knowledge about our moon that we supposedly visited in person upon so many occasions is entirely bogus sounding, it's as though we never accomplished what's been touted as an American achievement, all of which that now seems pretty much in the proverbial toilet, unless someone independent of their inner cult can provide honest answers that the rest of the worldly scientific community, including the new guard of NASA, can swallow.

I rightfully and respectfully agree to disagree:
Those that equally disagree with my village idiot interpretations of the available information are indeed many, though being equally upset of anyone suggesting absolutely anything the least bit contrary to their NASA/Apollo bible seems somewhat of a dead giveaway. Thus of absolutely anything other, of what nice outside folks or village idiots as myself have accomplished, is equally being bashed to death, where I believe that's been in addition to or perhaps in spite of all the ongoing carnage and of the rather enormous cost of sustaining the most grand cold-war ruse or perhaps sting of all time. Thus the timeline as well as recorded history has been deeply skewed into the nearest toilet in order to suit whatever the task is at hand, as equally skewed must become all of their related science and of even those laws of physics, skewed into being politically correct or else (that must explain why there was so darn little direct as well as secondary lunar surface radiation associated with our moon, as well as for explaining the nearly 50% surface reflective index as strangely captured in most all of those star-less Apollo mission images).

TIT for TAT 101:
Thus when I've mentioned of the rather enormous opportunities remaining for other discoveries associated with Venus, of potentially contacting survivors of an ongoing greenhouse of admittedly difficult if not downright testy existence of whatever life, or of at least documenting upon the remains thereof, all I get is either more of those dumb ass looks and/or their outright retaliation, nearly always accompanied by all of the warm and fuzzy flak they can possibly toss at me. It's as though I'm somehow worth their ammunition (somewhat like I've become an equal to Saddam's WMDs that were supposedly worth all the thousands of lives and of the trillion plus dollars and, of perhaps another worthy challenge similar to how bin Laden has become worth eliminating at all cost before his task is completed, though only to being replaced by others much less predictable and even more capable).

SOAP BOX 101:
Yes indeed folks; in addition to my improper or simply inadequate education, compounded along by a fair degree of dyslexia and of the worst possible syntax, I often include analogies involving the political environment, as well as for bringing in those testy morality issues into my equations of grasping a better understanding, of why I'm worth all the "spin" and "damage control", such as the orchestrated opposition to my suggesting when and where we should focus our resources and talents. Unlike so many of my esteemed opponents (including our resident warlord), in that their actions seem to exclude upon the lower 99% of Earth's population, while otherwise they seem intent upon only mingling with the upper most 10% crust. Whereas myself, I tend to overly consider and/or ponder upon the lower 90% of apparently Earth's scum and of other village idiots like myself, as opposed to those pro-Apollo cults that seem to boldly ignore whatever facts that demand substantive answers, this going as well as for their avoidance of establishing moral justifications (it's as though God forbid, you apparently don't want any of that nasty honesty nor moral stuff getting in the way of your progress, getting in the way of whatever ulterior agendas fostered by ulterior motives, nor of least of all, in the way establishing and/or holding onto your wealthy retirement, plus benefits at the expense of taxpayers and/or consumers).

Unfortunately; of anything ESE/LSE is not nearly as simple as I've offered upon, nor is there anything that's simple about our moon (though it's by far the least complex as well as most accessible of anything outer space), and it's certainly far from being simple with regard to what's existing on Venus in spite of our distorted and skewed perspectives, those being created and/or orchestrated entirely at the hand and/or moderated by the one and only hand that feeds us, or at least feeds those that remain as "teem players", as in required to sign on as upholding the internal cult "nondisclosure" agreement or else.


Due to the orchestrated email trashing and/or bashings that my research has attracted (I know this because others as well I have unrelated email accounts that are not being trashed), if you'd like to convey something outside of this arena, such as reply into something other than my plugged email, go into Google and post whatever, include within the subject line "bradguth-email" and I'll probably find you, or simply call: 1-253-8576061 or fax: 1-253-8575318

In addition to the following, there's soon going to be this difficult to read and perhaps harder to swallow publication by Henry Kroll: "The Frog Is Cooked"

Other difficult readings:
Guth Venus LSE-CM/ISS and the GW Bush Moon
What went so terribly wrong with those Apollo missions
Instead of our going to Venus, lets just give them a call
Moon Dirt isn't just Moon Dirt, it's Everything Dirt
"SADDAM HUSSEIN and The SAND PIRATES" by; Henry Kroll

A few other LSE UPDATES, and there's certainly going to be more to come:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-ese-invincible.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-lse-gpa.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-elevator.htm


To the INDEX page: GUTH Venus (with loads of recently posted UPDATES)
alternate URL's: http://guthvenus.tripod.com  and  http://geocities.com/bradguth
Copyright © 2000/2001/2002/2003 - Brad E. Guth
GUTH Venus: All Rights Reserved
Webmaster: Brad Guth - Brad Guth / IEIS   ~  1-253-8576061
created: October 02, 2003

Brad Guth / IEIS IEIS-Brad@Juno.com