Lunar Space Elevator / Moon/L1.1 or LL1.1 Space Elevator

(where shielding is dirt cheap, especially if that's bone dry lunar clumping dirt)

by; Brad Guth / IEIS    updated: June 11, 2004

Here's some more of those pesky corrections and perhaps a few too many of those mad scientist ideas per Lunar Space Elevator than you can shake a flaming stick at, such as our NExT generation ISS being configured within the LSE/CM and, there's even something on obtaining tether EMF energy from space itself, there's even more of those confusing space elevator numbers than you can possibly shake that same flaming stick at, plus I've got a couple of pictures of the GV-CM-CCM Space Elevator, of at least what one of my allusions is all about (though it needs work). I've also created another somewhat summarized version that's nearly half as wordy.

Space elevator introduction as provided by NASA's; NASA Reveals New Plan for the Moon, Mars & Outward

"The Earth-Moon L1 Lagrange point is at a distance of some 200,000 miles (323,110 kilometers) from the Earth, or roughly 84 percent of the way to the Moon."

Other feedback from the SE wizard likes of Bob Munck; "from the Earth through EM-L1"
This sort of Earth space elevator correction in terminology certainly makes a whole lot more sense, rather than my previous (EL2+) space elevator that would obviously become something taken out by the moon itself. However, that most certainly wasn't my intentions, just another one of my village idiot terminology misunderstandings (I've got lots of those plus any number of math errors).

There's also a few other words of wisdom to follow from: Michael K. Heney that have found there way into this space elevator circus, regarding the merits of essentially having to accomplish a highly dynamic lunar space elevator.

Based upon the E/M 384,500 km, I believe that makes the average moon L1 worth roughly 61,520 km, as opposed to EM-L1 representing 323,110 km or that of a 4.77:1 difference. And let us presume that the actual storage depot/counter-mass (CM) situated in free space needs to be situated at least 1.1 that of ME-L1, so that whatever amount of tonnage that's being stored is offering some worth at keeping those lunar space elevator cables sufficiently taut.

Now then, I don't mean to be the new kid on the block nor the one and only village idiot that's informing the likes of yourself as to what you must already know but, it seems irregardless of whatever alloy or new finite CNT elements are necessary in order to deal with the structural stresses at hand, 1/6th gravity as well as 67,672 km worth of relatively conventional cable seriously beats having to deploy any hundreds of thousands any day of the week, not to mention the LSE NOT having to deal with Earth's considerable atmospheric loading or of storm disturbances nor any of those irate Taliban crashing our very own jumbo aircraft into some space elevator tower of tighly stressed CNT cables.

Beyond Lunar L1; for a fact we'll be needing lots of bulk radiation shielding, almost 1/10th as much shielding as for being situated within the Van Allen zone of death.

"Sites on the Moon, for instance, can be easily accessed from an L1 Gateway. The same goes with travel to Mars or asteroid targets. Also, assembly, repair, and maintenance of a "telescope farm" of orbiting instruments can be done on site, then nudged over to the Earth-Sun L2 location."

""The L-points have become unique locations where you can do a lot of things," Martin said. "We found the more we look at them, the more nice things we find.""

"Harley Thronson, director of technology and senior science lead for NExT, said the semi-stable L1 Gateway offers a number of attractive capabilities. For one, returning back to Earth in a hurry due to an emergency is possible. But it can also be the first step on the way to putting people elsewhere and sending them to even more distant places, he said. Many tasks would be automated."

These are some of those few other words of space elevator wisdom from: Michael K. Heney;

"Keep in mind that the tether is not a rigid structure. If the CM is beyond GEO, (in the terrestrial case), the system will be in an orbit of more than 24 hours, and will tend to lean "backwards" - which has the effect of dropping the CM, until it's in a 24 hour orbit and back in balance."

"If the CM is beyond L1 in the lunar case, (looking from the moon), it's in a LOWER earth orbit than the moon and L1, it'll tend to move ahead of the moon, leaning forward, until it reaches a balance point."

"Basically, you can put the sytem under tension, but it won't stay there - it'll seek a new equilibrum point. In the case of a terrestrial tether, the perturbations are small and may be manageable, in the case of the lunar tether, the perturbations are huge and the "balance point" is highly dynamic."

"Where you get into trouble is if your CM passes *through* the balance point and ends up closer to the surface. Then it's no longer under tension - it's under compression. And down it falls. If your CM was lagging behind the ground anchor point when it went low, the tether starts to kink as the CM catches up, further dropping the CM and accelerating the process. If the CM was directly above or ahead of the ground anchor point when it goes low, it tightly winds itself around the earth, with the CM dropping as the angle away from vertical increases."

Out of all this terrific overload of information, there seems to be some good news and some bad news;  The good news being, it seems Mr. Heney knows a whole lot more than I. However, going by a few learned basics from his perspective of lunar/L1 physics, it's become apparent that of any passive/fixed counterbalance mass or tethered space anchor simply isn't going to cut it.

Lunar Space Elevator Linear Tether Considerations:
363,300 km, ME-L1 = 58,128 km, L1.1 = 63,941 km (-1738 km = 62,203 km)
405,500 km, ME-L1 = 64,880 km, L1.1 = 71,368 km (-1738 km = 69,630 km)

ME L1 = .00038995 G, EM L1 = .00038995 G, thus ME L1 - EM L1 = O G

Actually, the lunar L-1 by itself (without the Earth gravity-well influence) is .0007799 G, then by subtracting the EM-L1 makes the lunar gravity-well of the ME-L1 = .00038995 G, thus we have a null of opposing or dueling gravity wells that only shift their aligned linear positions with respect to mostly that of the E/M orbital relationships, then a little secondary influence from the sun.

A dynamically active space anchor (CM pendulum), say artificially being situated or created at roughly ME-L1.1 is very much in deed going to have a great deal to offer. Since the variations of any fixed tether linear distance is going to always be of something greater than the outermost ME-L1 (64,880 km), whereas for this to be the case could necessitate creating a maximum L1.1 of 71,368 km (minus moon radius = 69,630 km) tether, of which if the moon surface anchor(s) were fixed, the outer depot of moon dirt could likely gyrate to as much as +/- 24. However, if such wide dynamics were being supplemented by a solar/nuclear powered EMP solution, this energy assisted method could perchance deal with moderating those oscillations or perturbations to being within a few degrees (mostly affected by the solar gravity within this reasonably narrow oscillation zone), and/or by applying some linear placement of merely helping to shift the CM inward or out, as that also being another function of a certain amount of solar/nuclear powered consideration. After all, nothing happens all that fast with regard to the moon and of it's gravitational association mostly with Earth and secondly with the sun, seemingly allowing ample time for a +/- 3,714 km tether robotic function and/or there's always the add/subtract lunar dirt compensation scheme.

Other methods of active compensation might have to include:

An active CM reel and cable storage within, that could manage the +/- 3,714 km).

Applying other stabilizing EMPD thrusters of solar/nuclear powered format, and since this CM essentially imposes little if any significant weight limitations, and the fact that there's none of those testy GreenPeace anywhere in sight, I'd vote for the nuclear/empd thruster format.

Since any L1.1 CM should always be leading the lunar rotation, A second conveyer cable or tether deployment to a lateral/aft moon anchor point (at least -1000 km), might not become such a bad idea.

The Solar Influence:
Exactly how much influence the sun would have upon a maximum ME L1.1 alignment is probably well known to others but, I have not a clue at this point. Without the solar influence, the pendulum should remain somewhat centered (+/- a few slow degrees) directly between the moon and Earth irregardless of whatever the tether length is, as long as the minimum of L1.1 is accommodated and, the tether itself has the mussel to deal with whatever the maximum tether (69,630 km) allotment has to offer. At perigee of 363,300 km, if the maximum tether were utilized, the CM would become roughly L1.2 as opposed to L1.1, which is obviously another testy dynamic opportunity affecting how much strain there is upon the tether that's holding onto 1^12 kg of moon dirt is going to apply its force or tension onto this fixed tether. Obviously the option of maintaining the proper L1.1 at all times would have its advantages, with the exception of whatever technology it's going to take in order to interactively maintain such a dynamic compensation function.

I'm not at all certain about this consideration but, at least I'm willing to give it a shot;  The fact that a fixed tethered CM moon-dirt depot need not be situated in exactly the same spot day after day is a slight complication but, it's certainly not an insurmountable barrier that good fly-by-wire technology couldn't manage. The absolute worst possible delta of pendulum swing being something on the order of 31,286 km across (representing 9 times moon diameter) is certainly not trivial but, at least it's tethered (possibly even dual tethered) as to staying within this pendulum alley/zone and, I believe it's not necessarily all that often to approach such extremes, especially if there's any linear compensation and/or EMPD energy applied, plus it's exact location at any moment can be precisely created, as calculated and/or known. I tend to believe that this pattern would become entirely predictable to the level of +/- 0.1 meter even if not managed by some further technology extent, where this CM orientation might become considered a somewhat wild but otherwise entirely predictable pendulum, of which in itself would provide immeasurable information as to the forces of gravity as well as for gaging solar weather.

Since the least E/M = 363,300 km and, the maximum E/M = 405,500 km, this represents that if 16% of the EM distance is what the ME-L1 is, that makes for an overall linear shift of the ME-L1 being 7,428 km. Thereby we either have to dynamically shift the CM so as to always be at or exceeding L1.1, and/or by sustaining some tethered oscillation that'll insure that the LSE CM will cause the tether to remain sufficiently taut.

Another ripe idea was based entirely upon utilizing that clumping moon dirt; if a little moon dirt at L1.1 is a good thing, then perhaps a great deal of moon dirt is an even better idea. So, instead of 1000 tonnes, how about 1,000,000 tonnes (1^9 kg), or perhaps if puch comes down to shove 1^9 t (1^12 kg). After all, EM L1.1 is still representing nearly zero gravity, only very slightly being pulled towards Earth. Of course L1.1 is somewhat continually in flux, shifting itself by as much as +/- 3,714 km, though presumably always remaining somewhat centered upon Earth but influenced ever slightly by the sun, of which I believe a relatively small amount of EMPD thrust can manage to deal with this otherwise slow oscillation to within a few meters, which would greatly alleviate the need for otherwise depending upon absolute linear L-1.1 compensations.

I've had this other thought of an inward Counter Counter Mass (CCM) that would become the robotic sort of dynamic leverage force, utilizing the lunar gravity-well which this CCM could if need be travel itself up/down the interactive adjustment/trim cable and/or lock itself at any given point in order to impose the desired direction of cable release and/or pull back, thus greatly affecting the otherwise nearly free pendulum. Since this CCM could be in effect taking in or paying out by a 2:1 linear travel, in order to affectevly accomplish an overall linear compensation of 7428 km upon the CM, the CCM itself (if nearly vertical format) would need to travel to/from the moon by an amount 14,856 km, thereby the CCM should not have to weigh all that much, being that it's so much closer to the lunar gravity influence (never exceeding 0.9 L1), always tentioning against the space anchor CM that's tentioning those primary tether cables, that which the CCM has the 2:1 leverage advantage upon whatever CM forces exist. In other words, the CCM would not be something passive, but entirely interactive (robotic) and as dynamic as need be in order to help manage the L 1.1 placement of the CM.

Yet another dynamic compensation method could be by placing the cable surface anchors sufficiently apart, say 1000 km, then attaching or running a dynamic CCM upon either one or both of the cables in order to retract or extend the CM into the appropriate LL1.1 position. Think of this like a gravity suspended triangle with a dynamically mobile CCM attached to either or both cables, whereas the CM moves itself about in the ever changing L1.1 zone, remaining captive along the alignment of the cable established triangle, thus pulling the peak or pinnacle of this triangle back and forth as well as creating somewhat up and down compensation as the L1.1 variations demand. Thus either end of the cable remain firmly lunar attached and just the CM shifts itself about as need be, by natural forces and/or assisted along by a solar/nuclear powered cable drive and/or further accommodated by some amount of EMPD thrust.

If neither active tether method is deemed sufficient, then what if we could combine the +/- 3,714 km dynamic tether compensation along with the EMPD rocket engine consideration, as to provide 0.01% CM lateral thrust (if the CM = 1^6 kg * 0.01% = 1^3 kg thrust), over the +/- 328 hours (656 hours total) should offer at least something worth considering.

One other last ditch effort thought is somewhat like watching those spinning china plates atop extremely tall poles, where those that were kept spinning (even if erratic) seemed to retain some necessary degree of stability over those not sufficiently spinning, or perhaps this is just another poor analogy of what I'm trying to say. In other words; what if at the L1.1 tethered CM there were a sort of oscillation taking place, somewhat of a tethered orbit situated above and about the mean average of where the actual ME-L1 actually is, thus the tether itself would be considered as slowly forming a funnel or cone pattern from "0" at the ground and at the top there'd be the CM that would be forever in circular motion covering a zone represented by as much as +/- 26, be it slow motion but, seems that a controlled motion of any kind is better off than attempting to sustain any form of absolute tranquility.

One further village idiot example of having to deal with the +/- 3,714 km compensation is simply to utilize a rather substantial winch, configured somewhat like the largest ferriswheel of all time, say 2 km in diameter and of 125 meters width, so that two layers of 100 mm cable can be stored, thus 14,858 km of said cable would be available for the task of triming the CM deployment by as much as 7,428 km. The reason it'll take twice as much drum cable capacity is simply because I'd utilize a doubler block or single sheve at the CM, thus we'd have essentially one primary moon anchored cable looping through this CM block and returning itself back down to the freeiswheel/which, thus a 2:1 ratio.

Other methods of compensating the CM deployment might include having the entire active linear adjusment entirely functiioning as within the CM itself, thereby the lunar surface could remain as a passive anchorage point, with the only robotics taking place being the moon-dirt gathering and/or mining and of the subsequent delivery to the conveyer cable/tether. It even seems rather more practacle to be managing the linear adjustments from a near zero gravity point of view, even though the lunar surface might at first seem a whole lot more attractive for establishing such large machinery. After all, unlike those fully solar saturated and thereby TBI to death Apollo missions, lunar nighttime would be handsomely illuminated by Earthshine, as well as being a relatively safe working environment for whatever necessary human activities, as there'd be no valid reason to remain solar exposed, especially since it takes so much lesser moon-suit technology staying warm than it does staying cool, not to mention avoiding the rather horrific solar radiation exposure and of the lunar surface secondary radiation issues.

Even if the CM was to become 1^12 kg, I'd doubt if the individual tether cable loading would ever have to see more than 1^6 kg (1000 t upon each of perhaps four tether lines), plus whatever the EMPD thrust (1^3 kg) might contribute. So, possibly in addition to whatever the tensioning necessary for compensating the cable mass, there could be the maximum of 1.001^6 kg worth of CM+EMPD tensioning per tether. Somewhere in all this complex math there should be existing solutions, as well as any number of proposals made by others that actually know what they're talking about, whereas myself, I'm gradually having to learn of what others have accomplished and more often than not I'm having to badly use reverse engineering in order to understand what other is possible. Of course, I wouldn't have to being doing any of this if there was one competent individual that actually gave a flying puck about accomplishing anything that was actually humanly obtainable and morally justified.

By adjusting the L1.1 +/- (0.01 * L1) should also contribute to achieving the desired tether tensioning. Obviously the option of increasing the L 1.1+ offset towards Earth will achieve whatever desired tension that can be tolerated. Dumping moon dirt from the CM is always another option of reducing the tether loading, though pulling the CM inward seems a more acceptable alternative, especially since the value of all that clumping moon dirt is going to become a whole lot greater value once it's stored in the CM/depot, as intended for the needs of shielding manned missions, rather than for creating lunar sand storms in space. Of course, of whatever method is delivering the moon dirt into the CM in the first place should also be just as capable of taking whatever amounts right back down to the surface, thus accomplishing the ballast trim without wasting a clumping gram worth of said dirt.

Needless to say, the area surrounding the moon base installation of this space elevator operation might become somewhat dusty, sort of raining moon-dirt, especially as a few things go terribly wrong.

I believe there are any number of active/dynamic methods of affecting the ME-L1.1 or of whatever elected L1+ position of dealing with whatever CM mass (a dynamic CCM for one), just as there's any number of EMPD thrust considerations that should also moderate the CM pendulum zone down to a fairly tight pattern. Absolute zero tranquility seems not to be one of the options, nor should that even be an essential criteria, as so what if the damn thing is moving all over the place, it certainly isn't doing anything all that fast nor should those CM motions become unpredictable.

I've discovered that there seems to have already been perfectly good examples of some folks that are not entirely stuck in the same cesspool as all the rest of the "can't possibly do anything" gang (especially if it's not their idea). Obviously this implies that my ME L1+ lunar dirt depot is not entirely loony nor without a reasonable foundation. So, if you're intent upon critiquing me, then you're also criticizing and/or bashing the likes of Harley Thronson as well as Gary Martin and, I bet I could find any number of others equally or more so embracing a lunar (ME L1+) space elevator, including the likes of Dr. Bradley C. Edwards (director of research at ISR.US), even though for the moment our hard earned bucks are being flushed down the ESE toilet.

As you can tell, others being entirely negative about things is not the real problem, as long as there's an ongoing explanation and/or an alternate method offered that's worth considering. As far as I'm concerned, aside from having to deal with the sorts of intentional disinformation and/or of others withholding, my learning of what doesn't work is just as important as knowing what does, if not a whole lot more so important for the sake of saving a whole lot of time and for otherwise creating an alternate level of possible consideration that hasn't been fully explored. Hopefully, my skewed ideas are sufficiently provocative and/or skewed enough in the right direction as to getting others into thinking "where there's a will there's a way" (sort of like having to survive on Venus, in spite of the fact that you've got the worst possible dumb ass neighbors in the solar system, possibly in the entire galaxy).

This effort for appreciating what a space elevator has to offer is not about my being smarter than you but, since it seems as though the ongoing arguments for establishing any ESE has good merit, even though the applied technology seems to be entirely probable though currently unobtainable due to a serious lack of applied technology and/or of affordable materials that would be necessary as to accommodate the rather enormous distances, plus managing all the megatonnes worth of structural stresses. If this sort of quest for knowledge and subsequent dialog is my acting inappropriately, then I'll assure that the problem is not within my intentions nor actions, more likely with the ultra egos and arrogance of those opposing truths as well as opposing obtainable progress (it certainly doesn't do any of us good to strive for those stars, especially if we're all dead and gone by a thousand generations worth before our first probe ever makes the distance).

My views upon implementing a lunar space elevator is this;  If in fact the Earth space elevator is theoretically a doable thing for Earth, then I was thinking there's another fairly robust chance that a lunar/L1+ space elevator (ME-L1+) could be somewhat or perhaps rather a whole lot easier, certainly a whole lot more stable (by that I mean, stable as within a given and highly predictable zone) and, perhaps even a whole lot more useful than any Earth based alternative (certainly more energy efficient). Since space radiation shielding will be in great demand, as essential for future human space travel survival, and of what better substance is there but good old clumping moon dirt.

As according to those pro-Apollo rusemasters of, of their knowing just about everything there is to know of our moon, as well of their knowing and/or perpetrating about the mild space radiation environment, such as for some reason all of their clumping lunar soil that's offering a density of 3.41 g/cc is supposedly somewhat inert or nonreactive as compared to a much lighter density substance such as aluminum. However, even if that were not the case, there still seems a good number of unresolved issues that could be nicely addressed by our having zero-G access to such a commodity of such terrific radiation shielding material, especially if that's already manufactured and situated on such a uniquely stable satellite, that which a fairly minute portion of such terrific lunar stuff could be boosted via efficient space elevator pods into the near zero gravity storage depot just beyond the lunar L1. If such a stash were made possible, then this clumping moon dirt should become nearly irresistible, not to mention invaluable for the prospect of accommodating large scale radiation shielding.

We've proven time and again that we can launch a great deal of spacecraft and technology into orbit, such as those massive ISS modules and, of countless other shuttle delivered missions. However, we still seem to have ourselves sort of a firewall limitation or dilemma when it comes down to delivering any significant mission that's intended as being manned, and of that entire package being sent off to such warm and fuzzy places like our moon or Mars. As you should realize by now, my focus is somewhat less warm and fuzzy but perchance a whole lot hotter, such as eventually taking the likes of ISS out of Earth orbit, as intended to being stationed at Venus L2 (VL2).

This is where the task or challenge gets a little more than interesting, in that I've come into some limited knowledge that, unlike those Apollo missions where all the experts at have stipulated upon the vast bulk of solar/cosmic radiation was merely a marshmallow roasting IR event and of a little more intrusive UV than of anything other that could do serious harm to human DNA, such as by excluding secondary X-Ray class radiation that was oddly missing or otherwise subdued into being nearly immeasurable by less than an average of the 5 g/cm2 of those Apollo missions, whereas with regard to our accomplishing anything VL2, unfortunately it's not going to be same walk in the park from the standpoint of having to deal with solar heat/IR or even UV components, as much as it's going to become the actual solar/cosmic TBI dosage of the for-real radiation environment, as well as whatever secondary dosage that's compromising everyone's butt onboard the ISS/VL2 mission, especially if we're talking about any two+ year mission. Even though the VL2 environment should only be slightly greater (1.33:1 or perhaps 1.5:1) radiation exposure as compared to what's at Earth L2, it's still the 18+ month duration plus whatever to/from that's going to remain TBI testy, to the point of perhaps some folks needing to rely upon that personal cash of their banked bone marrow.

So, just for the sake of exposing another "what if";  what if we had the ability of supplementing the likes of ISS with an outer shell, say affording one meter worth of space between the new outer hull and of the existing hull, then if we had the option of breaking Earth orbit (as outfitted with those nuclear powered EMPD rocket arrays) with all of those now optional solar PV arrays wrapped up in the sorts of terrific aluminum foil that protected those Apollo missions, so that ISS and of it's new outer surround could be safely redirected towards the moon, much like those Apollo missions, so that ISS essentially avoids the vast bulk of any significant Van Allen zone dosage and, of otherwise being adequately protected by all that Apollo approved aluminum foil, as headed for their first pit-stop destination of something just slightly above Moon L1 (ME-L1.1), as this is where some space-age conveyer or screw pump or perhaps just utilizing gravity feed if ISS/VL2 were to position themselves just above or below M-L1, would simply go about transferring the necessary tonnage of all that clumping lunar soil into the newly created cavity surrounding the main ISS craft, whereas this impressive 341 g/cm2 worth of density (3410 kg/m3) of apparently far less reactive stuff than aluminum can start doing it's job of seriously protecting those onboard ISS, thus again unlike the Apollo missions that somehow managed to obtain 10 mrem/day while traveling in free space, the newly shielded ISS should become easily exceeding that performance by at least another hundred fold, making the worst the sun has to offer truly into a passive walk in the park.

Of course, if perchance those nice folks at were a bit skewed and/or snookered about their qualifications on the reactive nature of their infamous clumping moon dirt, at least we'll have the option of implementing a thicker storage cavity, where as much as 3 meters depth would accommodate 1024 g/cm2 and, I do believe that this amount is way more than sufficient to at least insure the ISS/VL2 mission to hell and perhaps back will, under worst case scenario, remain well under my initial concept of limiting the maximum red-line exposure (including a few EVAs) to 1 Sv/y, just as I've previously anticipated as being 95+% survivable for those onboard (that's obviously still a bit testy but mostly survivable at 274 mrem/day, although 27.4 or less mrem/day should actually become the ultimate goal, which should be quite easy to accomplish if you'd care to reference this level of shielding against any of those pathetic 5g/cm2 of shielding for those Apollo missions).

At least of the containment shell additions to our existing ISS would be relatively light weight fabrications, in other words easily packaged, launched robotically to join up with ISS and, their construction/assembly process could be managed at nighttime and thereby offering least EVA radiation exposure, then subsequently making their scheduled lunar pit-stop on their mission to VL2 (preferably also accomplishing this aspect during lunar nighttime, having only Earthshine as their illumination and thereby little if any direct solar influx to deal with) while residing at the ME-L1+ depot for a quick fill-up of those necessary tonnes of clumping lunar soil, a substance that should be relatively radiation safe and otherwise literally dirt cheap, while having to work with all of this transfer process at near zero gravity and thus little if any significant energy expenditure (just a little more mission time) would be taken up.

Now folks, I realize this tethered lunar depot of moon dirt is hardly an entirely new idea, though it seems that it should be more than just a little worthwhile to be contemplating our utilizing this recent space elevator concept that could be implemented within our current level of expertise, especially by way of our current level of alloys, as such, all of this seems almost too good to pass up. The LSE and of its subsequent CM depot for a substantial cash of fairly terrific radiation shielding material seems also a whole lot more usable than merely anything ESE has to offer, as we'd still have to get loads of shielding delivered into space, not to mention financially a LSE should be obtainable at not more then 10% that of having to accomplish any such ESE.

I seem to recall the multi-mile long tether experiment which proceeded to go terribly amuck, although those nighttime images of this fiasco included some extremely interesting UV spectrum recordings of just about every format of UFO you can think of, which seemed by far the better half of the deal, even though it took significant efforts by David Sereda in order to make such video available. On the same lines as the tether experiment, by way of accommodating a somewhat larger spool or ball of cable that could easily be dispensing its contents from Lunar/L1+, paying out cable towards the lunar surface, where upon cable arrival a robotic machine would proceed to sort of attach the cable into sufficient moon anchors, those previously drilled and set by yet another robotic machine that accomplished at least a series of 1 km deep holes, one per tie-down.

As tethers seem to go, the atmospheric free environment and thereby weather free and certainly offering a noncorrosive environment by way of anything lunar should become a good thing, not to mention the fact that there's no Van Allen zone of death to contend with nor Taliban running amuck, such as folks potentially crashing our own large aircraft into any exposed space elevator tower and cables, a decidedly complex problem that we seem to have to deal with here on Earth, either that plus our very own friendly fire taking out ships, commercial aircraft, slicing our way through suspension gondola cables, perhaps even a little too much ongoing laser cannon testing by those of Boeing/TRW Phantom Works and, nearly always our allies are having to take cover from otherwise receiving some rather significant hits (for God's sake, UN helicopters nor Canadian ground forces aren't even safe).

I believe a lunar/L1+ space elevator should also be within the realm of existing space budget morality, within existing technology as well as alloys, so that perhaps a scaled-down initial version capable of sustaining a delivery of at least 1 kg/minute should be in the cards. That's only placing a demand of 1440 kg/day, 43,200 kg/month or 518,400 kg/year. If the maximum ME-L1 distance is 64,880 km, therefore the maximum L1.1 would become (71,368 km -1738 km) 69,630 km, so that if we were to utilize any fixed 69,630 km tether, the chances are that this CM depot of moon-dirt will essentially need to travel a path that's somewhat intentionally on the move, if need be assisted along or moderated by a solar/nuclear powered EMPD thruster or an array of such.

With a little further regard to creating a sufficient CM mass;
Since a m3 of lunar soil = 3410 kg/m3, every cubic meter worth of that clumping lunar soil will essentially be saving our global warming environment from as much as 341 tonnes of CO2, that which would have been otherwise created by having to produce and conventionally launch that same amount of aluminum density into space. If that's not another win-win tree-hugging environmentally green as it's going to get situation, then I don't know what is.

If this crazy ISS/VL2 expedition necessitated covering ISS by a meter in depth worth of clumping moon dirt and, if the surrounding hull cavity was to take on a volume of 300 m3, then obviously we'd be in need of two years worth of surplus lunar soil as taken from the LL1+ depot, that is if the LSE delivery rate was poking itself along at messily 1 kg/minute. Thus my original thoughts of achieving 1 kg/second might actually become a more realistic goal, as once the first operating phase of any space elevator is in motion, the future buildup of capacity would go exponentially faster as well as gaining upon robust hauling capability with every new cable upgrade applied.

Constructing any sort of space elevator from the top down seems like another win-win advantage over that of accomplishing any Earthly based space elevator from the bottom up, since so much of the lunar CM and of it's internal infrastructure could be robotically delivered and even somewhat auto assembled, then payloads of the all essential tether could arrive and of its deployment managed from within and, we could obviously use the lunar gravity to our advantage instead of having to continually work against any significant gravity, not to mention having NOT weather nor much of any atmospherics to deal with, even solar weather could be of little consideration if the manned construction and tether deployments were during lunar nighttime, just lots of terrific space/radiation induced electrical energy to deal with, as was demonstrated a previous shuttle/tether experiment that David Sereda managed to get us a copy of. Perhaps the thought of placing ISS on patrol about the lunar ME-L1 might be another worthwhile thing to helping with getting its (1^6 m3) replacement LISS completed within the newly constructed (10^6 m3) lunar L1.1 CM (this might turn out looking somewhat like a Borg sphere of 300 meters).

Obviously if we loaded this 300 meter diameter CM sphere all the way to the brim, excluding the 1^6 m3 ISS habitat zone within, we'd have created a rather hefty CM of exceeding 45^9 kg. Of course the CCM residing itself at ME-L 0.9 could be dynamically adjusted, as well as the actual station-keeping point of the CM regulated as to remaining at L 1.1 or perhaps not so regulated by linear distance as much as being EMPD thrusted about. That brings up the sorry point of my having to discover on that "need to know basis" from others, of how much EMPD thrust will be necessary (lots I assume).

Here are some more of those confusing numbers: If the Earth/Moon = 385,000 km
The EM-L1 @84% = 323,400 km, the Earth gravity pull = .000389:1G
The ME-L1 @16% = 061,600 km, the lunar gravity pull = .000794:1G
Obviously the net result of these two opposing pulls = 0.0 Gravity @ME-L1
Whereas the CM at ME-L 1.1 could be made to represent a collective tug or tension of perhaps 0.001G

Thus as much as a 1^12 kg CM could thereby represent 1^9 kg worth of tether tensioning, minus whatever the dynamically variable CCM and of those cables introduce. Obviously more or less CM = more or less tension, where the sky's the limit.

Further calculations (perhaps yours) will enable our learning the results of what the ME-L1.1 of intended tether tensioning will develop (taunting us into knowing if we'll need more or less of whatever), and/or of what if any CCM would offer if that sort of interactively dynamic compensating item were situated at the ME-L0.9 will become a CCM of roughly 0.001:1G, whereas the ME-L1.1 CM situated at 67,760 km will have an Earthly pull or tug of .000404:1G + whatever lunar tug (this could engineered into becoming a net tether CM tug of 0.001:1G). From this point on it's simply getting itself way too complicated for my three remaining brain cells to calculate, even with the help of a calculator. Because everything is continually in motion, what we'll need is one of those nifty CRAY computational models going through all the variables, running all of that forward in time.

The GUTH Venus CM-CCM Lunar Space Elevator
The clumping moon dirt depot in the sky, providing radiation shielding that's dirt cheap

This lunar space elevator concept is using at least two parallel cables (more likely 3 or 4), operating itself at a rate of 100 km/hr. These cables run the path that's obviously up to the CM, then down and around the CCM, back up to the CM and returning to the moon, where on the lunar surface are the primary cable drive units and whatever pod interchanging and on-goings of surface mining of all that nifty clumping moon dirt, that which was so highly surface reflective that those Apollo images seemed unable to ever record the otherwise 10% reflective aspect of any lunar terrain. So, the sooner we get that nasty reflective and annoyingly clumping stuff off the moon the better. The pods are robotic and capable of averaging 1000 km/hr, thus through various cable wheel drives and being solar/nuclear powered, were these pods supply the serious up/down transports plus accommodating all that moon dirt delivery to the primary CM, where subsequently whatever amounts needed for the CCM are transported by smaller pods to/from the primary CM stash, thus adjusting the given mass of the CCM which in turn pulls or releases the cables so that the CM regulates at ME-L 1.1, thus helping to stabilize the pendulum aspects. In addition, there should be a few of those EMP thrusters involved, not so much for tensioning aspects as would be required of any Earth space elevator but, for further damping the oscillations, as ideally the goal is to make the CM as still as possible (centrally aligned with Earth), since the last thing we'll need is for any space elevator pendulum loaded with a hefty cash of 1^9 km running itself amuck, only getting worse off as the CM accomulates towards 50^9 km. The surface transport from the down elevator over to the up elevator would likely run itself along side or on top via those continuous cables that make their way across the lunar landscape at the rate of 100 km/hr. This is also where those tonnes of whatever moon dirt and minerals are loaded for their ultimate delivery to this dirt depot in the sky.

ISS @ME-L1.1: our NExT generation of ISS that's within existing technology, situated within the CM;
I'd have to believe that one of the benefits of having such a terrific stash of moon dirt in the capacity of 1^9 kg (maximum 100^9 kg) would become that of affording another manned space station that's essentially situated within the CM itself, being nearly as radiation proof as it's ever going to get and, even the absolute worst the sun or other space debris has to toss at you is not likely to cause structural nor radiation penetration to the core habitat zone (damn little secondary radiation as well). This core zone could eventually become our next ISS, offering as much as 1^6 m3 worth of interior, sort of a Borg cube or sphere within, that's otherwise nicely surrounded by several meters worth of that all important clumping moon dirt. Obviously, from this staging point or L1.1 gateway, besides off-loading said moon dirt to other missions in need of radiation shielding, all sorts of EVA safe and of Earthshine illuminated and thus extended EVA lunar expeditions are possible, otherwise countless Earth sciences could be performed, including interplanetary communications and just plain old astronomy, especially by way of those provided via crisp 16-bit VLA-SAR format images, as we're talking about some serious resolution capabilities.

The Energiser Bunny never had it so good

A simpler space battery perspective besides the generated potential that's most likely available in between the CM and the CCM, this energy resource could become that of a dipole antenna that's utilizing the rather substantial mass of the CM itself, plus the interconnected CCM and then obviously the roughly 70,000 km worth of primary tethers to/from the lunar surface, then certainly the moon itself as being perchance Mr.Negative, while we simply deploy from the already Earth bound gravity influence of the CM, a substantially free or lightly gravity loaded tether as affording the Mr.Positive consideration, of representing the opposing antenna dipole. As doing such, we could be taping into the ultimate of cosmic charged electrolyte that'll power-up a whole lot more than a few EMPD thrusters. Instead of pulling a mere 1.5 kw as was the case with the energy surge terminated shuttle tether experiment, we should be pulling mega watts, as the surface area and length of the Earth polarity dipole (anode) element is certainly unlimited, as well is that polarity being most likely pre established by the opposing gravity issues and, certainly the moon itself should represent an adequate cathode.

Actively Thrust Stabilizing an otherwise highly dynamic lunar SE/CM

This is where I may have slipped another cog, by utilizing my dyslexic encryption shorthand notation of implying EMP thrusters, when I may have been intending to specify upon MPD or EMPD. According to the following page, I somehow got the impression that it's quite possible, utilizing Lithium or perhaps Xenon and the MPD or EMPD to achieve an exhaust velocity of 40+ km/s (supposedly creating double that using the EMPL format), along with a fairly respectful 100,000 N/m2. Though a test cell of 22 cm diameter has only obtained 400 N/m2 from 200 KW, thus 2 MW = 4,000 N/m2 and 25 MW should deliver 50,000 N/m2, and perhaps so on until the entire thruster array explodes.

Another thought about rocket engine fuel: instead of spendy lithium and/or xenon, plus the fact that we'll have to launch and deliver such substances to the lunar SE/CM (that's even more CO2 for Earth), why not just utilize amounts of that clumping moon dirt again. After all, if we're merely electrifying and thereby flinging out whatever substances (somewhat exactly like a particle accelerator), it seems we might as well be using up tonnes of clumping moon dirt as anything, especially since the supply is unlimited and it's apparently become retro-reflective at that.

EMPD seems rather noteworthy;
Using such an efficient thruster is not only a worthy consideration of it's being more than sufficiently powerful but, that it offers an infinitely variable form of thrust, thereby absolutely no introduction of acceleration harmonics nor structural stress as associated with the sorts of typical re-boost that's currently utilized to maintain the required ISS speed and thereby altitude. MPD applied for high thrust; exhaust velocities of 40 km/s or more are obtained and, seemingly of relatively high thrust density, in theory offering as much as 100,000 N/m2. Energy wise, only about 15% of their input energy goes into waste heat.

Other pages associated with combined high thrust NTP and of lower thrust MPD of Interplanetary Transfer Systems Utilizing Zero-boiloff Solid Lithium Propellant.

Double Push/Push EMPL seems quite doable:
I've recently identified another somewhat "out of this world" rocket energy propulsion scheme that seems to at least double upon what EMP or EMPD has to offer, as well as for doubling other formats of propulsion such as ION or NTP. EMPL is equally beyond my knowledge of what's possible but, at this point, what do we have to lose?

Because this lunar space elevator or virtually any elevator application is hardly another of my expertise, I'd like some of your valuable feedback or even flak if that's all you've got to offer. Basically, I'll need some specific numbers and/or a few other pages which I can post as links as well as credits. So, if you've got an idea or something to contribute that's positive or simply informative, I'll certainly appreciate it and insure that you receive all the credit (I believe that's something that even NASA will not do, unless it's insuring something in return for their salvation, such as right about now they seem to need all they can get because, their commander and chief isn't exactly a happy camper these days).

Due to the orchestrated email trashing and/or bashings that my research has attracted (I know this because others as well I have unrelated email accounts that are not being trashed), if you'd like to convey something outside of this post, goto this following public email link (gv-bradguth-email-01) and post whatever, or simply call: 1-253-8576061 or fax: 1-253-8575318

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