There's Lots of Atom Friction, Then There's Photons

Space travel has it's Cd (slug/m3) coefficient, while photons seems to have atom dependencies

Apparently there's no such thing as a true vacuum, as there's always something out there, and unfortunately it's most likely getting in your way of going places far and wide. So why not instead of pressing your physical luck, place those local area code laser packets, and call it good.

Sorry that this page breaks your 8 second attention span rule. So, unless you're a speed reader and know how to proficiently decipher my dyslexic code on the fly, it's going to require far more than 8 seconds worth of your valuable time.


It seem free space has it's terminal velocity or drag coefficient, or perhaps "slug" value, of which I'm suggesting could be based upon 10% ls, where obviously I'm excluding whatever solids that you manage to bash yourself into at even that speed. Whereas above 10% ls where the kinetic energy formula might have to become not only based upon the usual square of the velocity but also upon the square of the mass itself, whereas 10 g of mass/force or joules of kinetic energy becomes 100 and so forth, at least up until you physically can't possibly go any faster, no matters what.

Consider always that the impact timeline as being so much less than a second is yet another worthy perspective of our further calculating upon what transpires when we're traveling at such speeds, whereas the speed of light being what it is, and thus an impact per meter of penetration is obviously transpiring in 3.333e-9 second, and of a millimeter worth transpires in 3.333e-12 of a second. Obviously if you're intending upon sustaining ls, your spacecraft shield had best deflect such impacts, or else.

A highly polished/mirrored surface might deflect a sufficient number of photons, but it isn't worth squat up against those heavyweight atoms.

Thereby, I'm not even going to suggest making light speed because, at that rate of advance a mere 2 mg dust-bunny is going to entirely vaporise throughout just about anything getting in it's path, and by way of releasing far more than 90 TJ/sec worth of kinetic impact energy. Actually of anything ls is going to be somewhat like being continually targeted by a rather impressive laser cannon that's firing continuous streams of those relatively massive atoms instead of those wossy photons, that'll need to be absorbed and/or deflected within a nanosecond, whereas the reported mass of an individual photon (dependent upon a given wavelength) isn't worth 10e-51 grams or 7e-19 electron volts, thus billions of times lesser in mass than of any atom, plus the fact of the kinetic formula that's based upon delivering that energy/second isn't offering that full second worth of energy timeline, but more likely at best a few picoseconds (3.33e-12) worth per mm penetration, thereby compressing every such impact with an atom into being extremely short and subsequently quite deadly.

As for running yourself into actual hard stuff, or that of having something as nasty as that 2 mg dust-bunny bashing into your craft at even 10% ls (30,000 km/s) is seriously going to light your fire with at least 900 GJ/sec worth of energy. Although once again that event isn't giving you any second worth as to disperse such energy, as such impacts are going to transpire entirely within far less than a microsecond, making that dust-bunny energy release into at least 900,000 TJ/microsecond. As otherwise, and only if you somehow managed to survive by avoiding absolutely anything and everything of actual substance (excluding items less than .002 mg of which you might be able to survive), as all that remains necessary is for your having sufficient energy as to overcome this standard space drag/slug coefficient.

That testy part about running yourself into stuff needs careful consideration:
Especially when the likes of Sirius was cruising within 0.1 ly from us, perhaps becoming nearest at 0.01 ly, as from that perspective we'd each have received the benefits of one another's illumination to work with, thus the notion of traveling in between wouldn't have become so damn cold, but also there'd be that rather pesky gauntlet worth of each other's Kuiper Bets that are simply chuck full of truly nasty sorts of stuff to be running into. The thought of others using a sufficient moon as a battering ram or that of a Trojan by which to safely manage this sort of gauntlet seems quite reasonable.

A notion about the age of our moon, or at least of it's close association with Earth:
If in fact our moon (according to all of what's been moderated to death by NASA) is supposedly 4.5 billion years old (just slightly less than Earth), then because of it's always lacking any atmosphere and thus having NO perceptible erosion via weather nor even significant geological cycles, it seems the lunar surface should have accumulated much in addition to whatever eruption deposits of internal substances, whereas that sterile environment would have at least by now become meters deep in lose meteorites and shards, of which you'd think of that having included a good deal of somewhat older stuff that's part of our supposedly (team Hubble declared) 14~14.5 billion year old universe, that which we've been passing and/or cycling through a mere local part of the Milky Way galaxy, which of course resides within a universe in of itself represents only the mere slightest portion of what we can still detect and thereby calculate upon, and of perhaps NOT of the actual expanse surrounding our perceptible universe.

BTW; It's become fairly well accepted that we're not actually an integral part of the Milky Way galaxy, just sort of passing through, as for being dragged along foremost by the likes of the massive Sirius group and perhaps influenced by a few other significant star systems (the likes of Pleiades hosting 6+ significant primary stars and roughly 3000 others) capable of dominating their gravitational surround to a much greater extent than of our meager (2e30 kg) solar system. And to further consider if we're supposedly only 5+ billion years away from some central "BIG BANG" or collision nucleus, and otherwise suggested as being less than 500 ly from our central pivot point, or perhaps origin, as such we've all been traveling along at some 14+km/s in relationship to the Milky Way galaxy that's perhaps making it's way at 200 km/s, whereas meanwhile lots of other stuff has somehow been underway for 14.5 billion years worth that makes me wonder what other's been going on for nearly 10 billion years prior to the materialisation of our solar system, and of what exactly have we since been displacing for the past 5+ billion years, and upon all the other stuff that transpired for the past 14.5 billion years, which either way seems like a geological timeline drop in the bucket.

There seems however to be yet another rather significant discrepancy brewing between those supporting NASA's moderated opinions, such as their suggesting the Pleiades star cluster being that of our origin and thus requiring an age of 4.6 billion years, as opposed to what others and ESA's assertion of roughly 80~100 million years which would coincide with our primary mass extinction. Even the Hyades cluster has been estimated at 700 million years, thus 4 billion years short of what it would take for being the birth-mother of our solar system, whereas the age of Sirius/ab is currently estimated at 250~300 million years, thus again way short of a full load. It's almost as though all that's surrounding us and of being so much bigger and far more complex is way younger. It's almost as though our NASA has been intentionally screwing with our heads.

According to virtually all the major religious teachings, we are the one and only original DNA/RNA of their God, as well as for our being here first, as in end of their discussion (period!). For some of us this understanding or perhaps tragic misunderstanding has become way too literal and upon occasion too Pope/Cathar lethal, though at least one redeeming exception might be offered by the Dogon, as well as for what those folks accepting Scriptural Physics are having to say, whereas at least this group's God somehow manages to include upon all the sciences, of physics and biology (including those notions of Darwin's evolution), as well as embracing upon whatever other galaxies might have to offer, along with their accepting a moral sense of responsibility for the vast expanse of what this universe has to offer humanity, and without their having to place our pathetic existence at the center nor as some exclusive freak of nature.

So far at least, most everything (including those quantum strings) offers mass, where even photons of 10e-51 grams or 7e-19 electron volts that seem to coexist throughout, such as where others have suggested that even a near perfect vacuum contains 1e9/m3 of various atoms. Along with such photons and EM waves passing easily through such not-so-empty space is suggesting that a little of just about everything still resides within every m3 vacuum, being somewhat like the raw DNA of our existence.

Perhaps within the most devoid expanse that's situated half way between significant galaxies is where there could become as little as 1e6 atoms/m3, although unlikely, as that's still suggesting a lot of substance to buck your way through (not to mention various physical debris), especially that is if your 1000 m3 spacecraft rate of advance were having to displace it's way through 30e9 m3/s as for making 10% ls (30,000 km/s), whereas a moon like ours that's representing the rough surface area of 40e12 m2 (volume = 22e18 m3) by which that much surface area and volume might actually suggest imposing a terminal velocity barrier of less than 1% ls, unless the energy as to drive something that enormous were simply unlimited by having it's very own thermal nuclear core. Our moon traveling along at the present day advance of 30+km/s (+/- 1 km/s) where there's simply not enough substance in what's passing by that'll clean off the deck, though perhaps of 10 or surely of 100 times faster could have done the trick, such as the required velocity of breaking ranks with the likes of Sirius/ab may have required that initial 10 fold effort of managing an exit velocity of 300 km/s, and otherwise much like the sorts of surface house cleaning that transpires upon other sufficiently fast moving but lesser gravity capable asteroids, as they manage to lose most all of their debris accumulations at traveling a mere 72 km/s in relationship to our velocity.

Somewhere I seem to recall the reference to our solar system making and/or keeping up with 220 km/s, whereas as I'm assuming that's in relationship to a central reference point or nucleus that's supposedly some odd 400~500 ly distant. If that be the case, then 220 km/s + 72 km/s = 292 km/s, or nearly .1% ls is perhaps what we're looking at as being a fast moving comet. Elsewhere there was some reference to a recorded speed of 600 km/s (0.2% ls) as being the maximum observed velocity of other significant mass. Thus obviously even the thought of obtaining 1% ls seems well worth our understanding, as to whether or not there's some terminal velocity factor that's adding insult to injury upon whatever +/- gravity has to impose. As even if the average closing rate of mutual attraction were to become 1% ls, of accomplishing that 3,000 km/s feat would take something of 50,000 years in order to reach the center of our realm, and that's if we could manage to fly a direct non-stop route to the center of such a 500 ly radius, whereas unless there's some diversion from a massive galactic collision, chances are that a more likely spiral route would be nearly forever in getting to this center, and not that arriving at the center of anything massive is such a wholesome idea.

As for a noticeable loss or blow-off of surface debris, plus otherwise inducing a horrific trailing disturbance as being displayed behind sizable orbs or comets, making their way relative to Earth of 72+km/s, is what's been giving me this notion that there's sufficient substance that's going to further limit our physical speed of advance. As equally the notion of penetrating those fluffy clouds of V838 isn't going to make for surviving any easier, as likely every particle of such a reflective cloud is most likely seriously big and nasty as all get out.

With further regard to what's creating drag, besides gravity issues:
This speed/drag consideration of approaching or surpassing light speed should become somewhat like being targeted by an extremely powerful and full coverage laser cannon beam comprised of relatively massive atoms instead of mere photons, along with a few solids tossed in for good measure, that which never shuts off. If that's not a worthy terminal velocity limitation, then I don't know what is.

This portion can get a little confusing to say the least, and as usual my math could even be unintentionally skewed, so I may have to re-edit and subsequently apply various corrections into my reverse engineering that's based upon my initial 10% ls assumptions.

Air/m3 @1 Bar = 53e24 atoms/m3, or 4.1e22 atoms/g
 H2/m3 @1 Bar = 50e24 atoms/m3, or 6.02e23 atoms/g

1.29 kg/m3 and thereby 53e24 atoms/m3 of common air/m3 (sealevel), whereas this density supposedly yields a standard atmospheric slug/drag coefficient factor of 0.002378/f3 (35.3147 * f3 = .08398 slug/m3), then perhaps the far greater task of having to displace your way through 30e6 m3/s of what's containing those 1e9 atoms/m3 amounts to roughly 30e15/s worth of various atoms (mostly those of H2) being pushed aside per second per m3 is worth knowing about.

By using 10% ls as a baseline of 30e6 * 1e9 = 30e15 atoms/m3/s, whereas that might suggest upon a minimal slug/m3 factor of free space becoming somewhat greater than .0475e-9/m3, whereas accounting for such mass to be including a little something other than mere hydrogen might suggest a typical slug/drag coefficient (10% ls/Cd) of .05e-9/m3 (1.416e-12/f3), and even a bit more so if that were encountering a significant gas or of some other substance/cloud like what's surrounding V838 should skew this drag/slug coefficient a little further.

Though I don't have my final do-everything formula that's all inclusive, where as for now my limited calculations of which I'll have to eventually improve upon as I learn more and catch errors, such as this time around I've initially based upon my using 10% ls as for establishing the initial "space density" base line, as it seems like free space offers it's drag coefficient "slug"  of perhaps .05e-9/m3 at 10% ls (as opposed to air giving us a maximum slug value of .08398/m3).

The terminal velocity slug/drag coefficient (Cd) as based upon other initial speeds:
100% ls (300,000 km/s) = .05e-7/m3
  10% ls ( 30,000 km/s) = .05e-9/m3
    1% ls  ( 3,000 km/s) = .05e-11/m3
 .1% ls    ( 300 km/s) = .05e-13/m3
.01% ls     ( 30 km/s) = .05e-15/m3
.001% ls     ( 3 km/s) = .05e-17/m3
.0001% ls   ( 300 m/s) = .05e-19/m3
.00001% ls   ( 30 m/s) = .05e-21/m3
.000001% ls   ( 3 m/s) = .05e-23/m3

Another interesting way of our looking at this criteria is through the basic kinetic energy formula, which states the obvious;   KE=2MV2

If the mass/m3 that's being displaced is comprised of 1e9 atoms/m3, and if there's 6.022e23 atoms/gram, then 1e9/6.022e23 = 1.66e-15 gram/m3.

2M = 3.32e-15
V2 = 90e15
KE = 298.8 J/sec

299 J/m3 as traveling at the speed of light isn't all that testy, although the timeline of such impact energy dispersement isn't given the allotment of any full second, more like 3.33e-9 (3.33 nanosecond) as to traverse through a full meter worth of shield, where obviously we're talking about 3.33 picosecond (3.33e-12) as per mm.

If in fact your spacecraft is having to sustain ls, and there's no let-up upon what impacting at the KE = 299 TJ/picosecond, or how about 995 TJ/m, as then all bets are off as to much of anything except for the likes of photons makes a go of it.

Thus I suppose if one wanted to suggest upon some standard of terminal velocity formula for space travel, that reference or formula of proof might have to become the Light Speed slug/drag (LS/Cd) coefficient that would essentially nullify out all but what's less massive and of representing lesser volume than a photon, whereas no matters what the drag or slug coefficient outcome becomes equal to 1, in other words you simply can't go any faster without becoming a black hole, or at least not without first losing all mass in order to compensate for the enormous friction of traveling through such a nasty gauntlet of atoms, whereas the likes of photons and even magnetic waves seem to operate freely at roughly a terminal velocity of 300,000 km/s because of this limitation factor.

I'm actually at the point of considering that atoms may need to exist in order for photons to coexist, in that photons are being handed off like packets from atom to atom, or that the highly energetic photon is somehow capable of aligning the fewest of such available atoms to be found in the most evacuated expanse of space, sort of making such few atoms into a chain of closely aligned packet nodes so that this photon hand-off transpires. Obviously the photon isn't being blocked nor diverted by the much greater mass of the atom, thereby there's some likelihood of an interactive dependency.

Raw unobstructed velocity = gt; thus within a pure vacuum the task of eventually exceeding the speed of light shouldn't be any problem (DEAD WRONG! that is unless you're being sucked into a black hole, as otherwise you'll need to guess again).

Traveling yourself much faster than 10% ls should be rather lethal, as physically almost everything that encounters something other than merely hydrogen atoms is vaporised, whereas just the hydrogen atom itself imposes enough kinetic impact energy to tear through most any physical spacecraft, as we're not suggesting a full second duration of kinetic energy release, but of a continuous stream or gauntlet of less than a few nanoseconds per atom as to penetrate whatever. This would be somewhat like being targeted by an extremely powerful and full coverage laser cannon beam that's comprised of such relatively massive atoms instead of those mere photons, of which never shuts off, and if that's not imposing a worthy terminal velocity limitation, then I don't know what is.

Spatial tsunami;  Though much like that of a fast moving ship at sea, there's a bow wave created that's actually traveling faster than the speed of the ship, thus at some point in the speed of advancement through outer space there's going to be created a bow-wave or displacement induced seismic or tsunami wave generated that could possibly clear the way.

Obviously of that individual m3 would represent a relatively small class of probe if being of one cubic meter, thus requiring a fraction of the energy associated with that of any 1000 m3 expedition class space craft, and likewise that of any 22e18 m3 (40e12 m2) moon is going to take on some serious energy in order to overcome drag of making a SOA of merely 0.1% ls, +/- whatever gravity issues and of whatever nasty gauntlet(s) of Kuiper Belts and other debris getting in the way. Whereas even an ultra sub-miniature probe of one cubic micron having to travel at ls is thereby technically unlikely to survive. Thus I've focused upon 10% ls as being our best future effort that's possibly survivable, which is still pushing 416 times faster than of any recorded object that's typically creating a substantial trail of debris for all the friction associated with the likes of a 72 km/s meteor.

Of meteorites and nasty other sorts of stuff that keeps going bump in the night, and a little about those nicely colorized gas clouds of V838 that must be clouds comprised of sufficient mass of condensed gas or perchance dry ice balls seems like perhaps each detectable pixel worth of items greater than Earth might be a requirement, at least in order for the likes of Hubble to have stacked perhaps hundreds of exposures in order to have detected upon what's 20 thousands of light years further off than Sirius/b, of which of Sirius/b being nearly the size of Earth was just barely acquired by the likes of Hubble after assembling 50 such exposures. So, those clouds are either trillions of nasty ice chunks closely clustered, or they're of relatively large and significant sorts of items capable of reflecting photons. Either way it's not something that's going to improve your chances of physically getting through.

In order to grasp some vague notions as to the nature of such debris, as for an example of what other is potentially surrounding the likes of the massively dense Sirius star system, as for identifying possible planets such as Sirius/c or numerous planetoids trapped within a Sirius Kuiper Belt, or that of some vast other surrounding cloud of significant icy debris reaching out to nearly the mutual gravity-well null point (that null currently being merely 8% [0.69 ly] away from us), as for that sort of insight we may need to realize upon what's surrounding our solar system that's well beyond Pluto, as well we should have been taking stock of the sorts of what's been incoming and simply getting in our way as it is, with the relatively nearby surface of our moon providing the ultimate meteorite morgue of all time.

Of course, as we've become closer associated within the 110,000 year cycle of encountering the Sirius star system, that which has routinely UV illuminated our global environment to the extent of recorded CO2 levels dropping nearly in half, whereas it seems that our mutually associated Kuiper Belt interaction is going to get somewhat testy as a few outer chucks from the Sirius Kuiper Belt are invariably inter-mixed throughout our solar system, and whereas planets without a significant atmospheric buffer zone, such as especially Mars and even Earth as having less than 1% of what Venus has to work with, are going to get thoroughly pulverised, with the likes of our moon being wide open as well as sucking whatever's nearby with it's very own 1.623 m/s/s worth of gravity influence.

From one relatively conservative report, there's roughly 500~600 of significant meteorites (1+kg) officially reaching the surface of the Earth each year, whereas another mid range guestimate is 18,000 of those 1 g to 1 kg, and even of all those but only a dozen or so are ever recovered, as the vast majority fall and sink into the oceans or simply are not otherwise located. Thereby even the remains of a few dozen larger than 10 kg meteorites that managed to impact per year also go unaccounted for. There have been recorded meteorite showers of hundreds per hour, though more often 50+ have been observed per hour, which still seems to suggest that a good deal of other such meteorite influx hasn't even been viewed upon and thereby remains essentially unaccounted because of location, daylight conditions and/or both.

Of various radar tracking that's limited to perhaps a 1% coverage of Earth's sky at any given time, this seems to clearly represent that 99% of our sky's simply remain unaccounted, unless we're talking about the sorts of seriously big stuff (100+kg) that you'd think should be fairly hard to miss. Whereas a mere gram of iron or platinum as being physically so much smaller volume might not even register on the best of those radar detections, much less upon the vast bulk of what an individual milligram class meteor is going to be those nearly invisible to all but the absolute best instruments, while of those having survived their reentry have been continually falling like dust upon Earth.

It's been estimated that there's yet another 100 million significant meteors that enter the Earth's atmosphere each year that significantly burn up, leaving their remains as falling to the ground as dust and of the portions incinerated becoming various elements of atmospheric gas. The estimated total weight of meteorites which remains as measurable dust has been pegged by some at roughly 4 million tonnes per year, plus I believe there's the other vast inventory of just micro-meteorites and even lesser space dust-bunnies to contend with. With a speculated grand total of the large, medium, small and micro influx being perhaps < 100 million tonnes worth as deposited upon Earth each and every year.

If it weren't for the benefit of our atmospheric buffer zone deflecting so much, and of otherwise entirely incinerating so much other (obviously of anything ice seldom if never makes an impact), thousands of us folks might be getting our heads knocked off every day, and there'd be at least another ten fold more buildup to contend with.

Of course, if we actually had those relatively small and inexpensive robotic probes (javelin or otherwise) as firmly implanted and interactively operating upon the moon, we'd have known for certain what's what, and decades ago at that. Instead there remains such wide speculations and resulting guestimates, often having been based upon those supposed lunar samples that are oddly so very much like Earth, and as such simply can't be qualified. Especially since our moon should have been offering the ultimate meteorite morgue of nearly all there is to be found within at least the Milky Way Galaxy. Being that the age of our universe has been reported by team Hubble alone as being at least 14 billion years, and being that the density of the moon is absolutely nothing like that of Earth, nor is the lunar thermal nuclear core suggesting anything like Earth, and for many other valid reasons is why we've needed such interactive lunar surface probes: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-javelin-probes.htm

Somewhat better yet for Earth sciences and of what's closest to benefiting our solar system exploration, and even for that of our eventually obtaining rather enormous 3He/He3 energy related considerations, is if there were ever to be established a serious lunar based robotic VLA-SAR aperture imaging alternative http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-sar.htm, and that of our eventually establishing the Lunar Space Elevator (LSE-CM/ISS) or GMDE (Guth Moon Dirt Express) with it's tether dipole element deployed as reaching to within 50,000 km of Earth, just as I've covered throughout those pesky updates, whereas such might have given the likes of our resident warlord's partnerships with Salem bin Laden and of their mutual logistics helper "Halburton" their ultimate goal of global domination over our lunar 3He or He3 by now: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

As for our intentionally leaving this solar system, and/or entering another, apparently there's some serious Kuiper Belt flak that's potentially getting in our way. In our case there's stuff nearly the size of our moon that's beyond Pluto. The notion of our traveling fast through such a gauntlet isn't such a wise thought unless you've got absolutely every chunk mapped out.

Kuiper Belt mass of ~ 1 Earth: http://www.kepler.arc.nasa.gov/summary.html
The Kuiper Belt lies outside the orbit of Neptune, occupies the zone of 30 to 100AU out from the Sun, within are at least 35,000 Kuiper Belt objects greater than 100 km in diameter, a few of which recently discovered as potentially larger than Pluto.

The current total mass of our Kuiper Belt population between 30 and 50 AU was once estimated to be roughly as little as 0.1 Earth mass, although since there are at least those 35,000 Kuiper Belt objects greater than 100 km in diameter, and even a few recently identified as being larger than Pluto, this factor alone seems to be indicating somewhat greater than 0.1 Earth mass. Just 35,000 of those 100 km balls of ice or perhaps dry ice is worth 523.6e12 * 35e3 = 18.326e18 m3 and even if we are speaking of merely H2O that's 18.326e21 kg, although at least common basalt should offer a worth of 54.98e21. Of course, if the average size of those 35,000 items being of 100+km diameter were actually of 400 km diameter, as then the mass potential becomes 64 fold greater = 3.52e24 kg which obviously becomes way better than half Earth mass.

If our rather minimal solar system manages that sort of nasty Kuiper flak belt, representing a rather significant zone of death to whatever's getting in the way, then perhaps the truly massive Sirius/ab star system and of whatever other significant Sirius/c/d and forth being 3.5 times greater in their overall mass to that of our solar system, where as such the likes of Sirius should have it's Kuiper Belt and/or optically detectable cloud that might suggest the square upon what's associated within their star system being of at least 3.5 times greater mass, which gives the Sirius Kuiper Belt zone of death a potential mass of at least 12 times greater than ours, with an outer radius of perhaps 1200 AU as opposed to our 100 AU.

This sort of debris field would certainly have imposed a pesky issue when the Sirius star system was within 0.01 ly (9.46e12 km) from our solar system, as the chances of our mutual gravity influencing upon one another should have forced our encountering something that's surrounding Sirius, as being skewed off course into becoming a little too close for our comfort, whereas such lethal potential is currently the least bit detectable by way of our instruments while at the 8.64 ly distance. Of course, our instruments would need to have actually been looking at what's surrounding Sirius, and for the most part they're not. So once again, even though our inventory of astronomically spendy instruments and supposed expertise that's imaging upon the likes of V838 Mon do seem to exist, though as for their focus upon anything the that's least bit associated to Earth's humanity we've essentially got squat zilch to work with, and team Hubble remains as wondering why us folks don't give a hocky puck worth of concern about their precious instrument, much less for the hot prospect of roasting another batch of astronauts.

Keeping things in perspective; V838 Mon is reported as roughly 20,000 light-years away from Earth in the direction of the constellation Monoceros, essentially at the outer edge of our Milky Way galaxy. The artificial colorization depicts a cloud like surround, although of all that being 2300 times further away than imaging Sirius/b, of which the absolute best Hubble offers is slightly better than of one pixel worth of an object suggested as being nearly Earth sized (Marc Kuchner used Hubble but needed to stack 50 of 6 second exposures in order to obtain even the few pixels that are believed to be of Sirius/b), thus of whatever other is imaged at 2300 times further off must easily require 100 times larger than Sirius/b to even have been detected. In other words, those so called gas clouds of V838 must actually be comprised of somewhat large objects, and seemingly of much larger items than to be found within our Kuiper Belt, plus literally billions if not trillions of them at that.

BTW; it always seems so continually of odd interest as to how much detail a stack of Hubble images can deliver, especially whenever there's a need for continued support and funding. Such as delivered upon their hyped V838 Mon image, whereas upon the likes of our moon being 20,000 light years closer, and of which the drift and/or alignment rate of lunar skew can be sufficiently synchronised with a maximum exposure of perhaps a mere second or so per image if using earthshine, thus a stack of 100 such images could have been easily registered within an hour. Of course the Borg "spin" and "damage control" freaks will keep insisting that it's entirely impossible for their Hubble performing any such synchronised motion, much less stackable images that'll offer squat worth of resolution smaller than 80 meters worth. Of course these fine and upstanding talents were no doubt educated by GW Bush's "high standards and accountability", as that's why they could all clearly identify those WMD that simply got hid from our view, and subsequently team Hubble entirely supports the sorts of civilian carnage and physical devastation that's ongoing as we speak.

Earth based adaptive optics = 210 km resolution of Saturn's Titan @8.8+AU.
http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2002/phot-04-02.html#techinfo
An ongoing project to map the surface and clouds of Saturn's moon Titan using adaptive optics of Palomar, Keck II telescope, and Air Force AEOS telescopes. The surface of Titan is hidden at visible wavelengths by a thick, hazy atmosphere. Observing at wavelengths of greater than 1000 nm, however, it has been possible to penetrate this haze. Adaptive optics on an individual 10-m telescope allows us to achieve a raw resolution of 0.05 arcseconds at 2 microns, or 300 km at Titan's distance, thus the combination of all instruments acting as one adaptive optical telescope should have easily outperformed Hubble by at least ten fold, and obviously capable of being easily synchronized upon a solar illuminated and/or earthshine illuminated lunar surface would permit hundreds of stacked images to be acquired within an hour, with a capability of yielding less than 1 meter resolution, then photoshop improved to better than 0.1 meter.

Of course, why should we even bother wasting an entire hour looking at the moon, when according to our NASA and those of it's cult Borg collective following keep insisting that there's apparently absolutely nothing whatsoever to be gained about other planetary and/or lunar geology, much less of those crashed landers and associated debris to see?

Marc Kuchner's http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~mkuchner/siriusbfig.html
This is an image of Sirius A and B taken with the NICMOS coronagraph on the Hubble Space Telescope as part of a search for exozodiacal dust and faint companions around nearby stars (Kuchner and Brown, 1999). At this wavelength, 1.1 microns, Sirius A is about 10.2 magnitudes brighter than the white dwarf, Sirius B, which is visible about 3.8 arcseconds to the left of Sirius A. This image is a sum of 50 exposures lasting 0.6 seconds each.

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/28chandra/
"The white dwarf, Sirius B, has a mass equal to the mass of the sun, packed into a diameter that is 90% that of the Earth. The gravity on the surface of Sirius B is 400,000 times that of Earth!"

Not that you're one of those that'll actually care whether or not Earth, and that of our moon or the likes of Venus had any influx or other associations whatsoever with Sirius, even though the recorded levels of historical CO2 that clearly have cycled upon a 110,000 year timeline, of which required hundreds if not thousands of years per added illumination for the life cycles of living things like diatoms to have sufficiently interacted via photosynthesis, in order to have had such a profound affect upon our atmospheric environment, and that of this degree and UV spectrum of photon illumination being somewhat limited to the alternatives of none other than Sirius/ab. But then perhaps this entire notion of what's what simply becomes another one of our resident warlord's "so what's the difference" policy qualifiers. In other words, we should keep our science as saturated deep within that approved space toilet, unless there's an election coming up where selected eliminations can be extracted from the bowl, as only to being placed right back into that space toilet soon after the election.

If you don't wish to believe in a word I'm offering, then perhaps you should ask someone other that our NASA approves of, like David Helfand, and of what this guy thinks of NASA's "spin city" and otherwise of his utter disdain for their sensationalism, whereas his proper analogy of a "brick by brick" approach should have started us off quite nicely as of 13+ years ago, as that's when the Magellan mission did such a damn fine job of imaging the zone within which I've since named as GUTH Venus, plus there's been a couple other worthy sites uncovered that apparently must take real talent in order to have discovered what's been there to be seen. Of course if those pesky laws of physics weren't entirely on my side, there'll be that trouble brewing in River City. Even if the laws of evolution weren't nearly as skewed as they were for our radiation proof as well as micro-meteorite dodging Apollo astronauts, then here again I'd be without my paddle. But lo and behold, there's actually quite a good deal more so that's supportive of other life NOT as we know it making a tough go of it, and that's in spite of the rather embarrassing factor of having to exist right next door to the most pathetically dumbfounded as well as dumb and dumber other planet in the universe.

As David Helfand warns, "We are playing a very dangerous game. The basic nature of science is being distorted in the public mind".

I've agreed with the likes of David Helfand because he's not only right about how our NASA has been acting and going about their business of doing things, but David Helfand is also seemingly quite morally honest in his proper scientific ways of thinking, suggesting that we shouldn't be so distracted and subsequently snookered into believing whatever the infomercial driven (dog wagging) agenda of NASA decides is important, such as their having passed up the perfectly good sorts of information obtained from the Magellan mission without first taking a good look-see, much less ignoring the fact of this matter long after someone as pointed out what's there's to be seen, plus I'm secondly giving a dozen or more associations to those pesky laws of physics and even some of Darwin's evolution a shot at somehow surviving upon such a hot and nasty greenhouse planet, even though it's well understood that if we humans had to survive a similar fate, we're all acting as though we're absolutely dumbfounded and otherwise simply couldn't be bothered, perhaps because of all things we apparently know all there is to know.

Of course, the very nature of any true creationism can obviously survive damn near anything, even the sub-frozen and irradiated to death and of such pulverised environments of Mars is perhaps just fine and dandy as for something as special as created only the likes of a true terraforming God, whereas the pagan Gods of Earth are those restricted to whatever their snookered mentality and incest clones of humanity can be forced to accept, of which lately have been willing to accept the existence of stealth WMD without remorse, rather than even considering upon what's capable of living elsewhere and thereby a whole lot smarter than us.

On the other hand, we seem to always have those words of wisdom (hype, spin and highly colorized infomercials) from our team Hubble, of their stipulating that Hubble alone has determined the age of the known universe to be 14~14.5 billion years, even though for not 1% the cost, at absolutely no risk to astronauts and as an environmental impact factor of not having created .1% the artificial CO2 for Earth's environment, there have been other instruments like HIPPARCOS, of which probably didn't cost US taxpayers a damn cent, that which mapped and determined the distances between more than 100,000 stars, thus more likely established those hard numbers for estimating the various distances, speeds and subsequently gaging the age of what's surrounding us, better than Hubble. Besides all of that, there's other instruments that optically outperform Hubble in looking at brighter objects that could actually matter to humanity, like TRACE being somewhat of a micro-satellite and of a miniature but damn good telescope that has far outlived it's original mission and without risking the life of a soul, while not costing us even 0.1% that of Hubble.

BTFW; that 14.5 billion years worth is absolutely nothing to the greater expanse of what's traveling about us, much of which has been traveling away from us at 10+km/s seems almost like a dead crawl when we and our group of stars systems such as Sirius having been migrating through this local galaxy at roughly 14 km/s in relationship to what other is situated within just the Milky Way, of which even this as a group has been supposedly traveling at 200+km/s. This universe is on the order of containing millions of such galaxies, each containing billions other if not trillions of individual star systems and/or solar systems that must be at least as old if not much older than ours, especially if Earth has been dated as only 6 billion years worth. Whereas on top of all our neighborhood making it's headway of 15 km/s in relationship to the likes of the Milky Way galaxy, there's been significant other massive clusters of galaxy related items clocked at exceeding 600 km/s (0.2% ls), some of which would be by now (if we're talking 14 billion years worth with respect to our existence at the near center of all there is to be seen) at least another 28e6 ly if those sorts of items were making 0.2% ls, and still going strong, thus being even far more undetectable than all those WMD.

Hopefully other solar systems haven't become so incest infected with the sorts of mutated DNA/RNA cloned genetics of our dumbfounded stupidity, arrogance and greed as found so widespread throughout Earth, whereas thereby we should have been utilizing decades worth of laser cannon technology as to be transmitting those quantum binary packets of messages, those obviously traveling efficiently along as proficient photons at light speed, and of their overall energy consumption and infrastructure not creating 0.0001% (1e-6) the artificial CO2 impact, of which the likes of deploying and sustaining instruments such as Hubble represent just the opposite, not to mention the thought of potentially roasting our astronauts.

I've previously mentioned associating the likes of Hubble along with ISS, as cruising those tow items along at perhaps 100 km apart, so that the likes of a spendy shuttle mission could kill off two birds with just one horrifically CO2 contaminating mission, not to mention the safety improvement by operating sufficiently near to ISS just in case that Boeing/TRW Phantom Works ABL gets airborne during their mission, or of perchance surviving whatever other comes along that's adding insult to injury.

Of course, optically performing instruments as deployed on our moon can't be so easily ignored, as representing the nearly ideal platform for drastically boosting upon remote imaging magnification, especially as an efficient VLA-SAR placement of those lunar environment tolerant image receiving aperture modules that would have been sufficiently small and efficient enough and certainly robust compared to anything that's directly optical, and thereby capable of surviving much of the micro-meteorite influx that's been fully exposed to whatever comes along, plus further inducted by the lunar gravity, and of otherwise having to survive the truly horrific radiation influx plus secondary TBI dosage of those surrounding hard X-Rays that's not so biologically friendly. For instance, I believe that a lunar based VLA-SAR image receiving module could have been giving us 100mm resolution of the surface of Jupiter and perhaps 10mm of Venus, and technically less than 1mm of the moon, or even eventually Earth could be imaged once the required opposit of having the transmitter arrays of the SAR component deployed upon the moon.

Speaking of what's been influxing upon our moon; If in fact our moon is nearly as old as Earth, lets say the moon being pegged at roughly 4.5 billion years worth. For having absolutely no atmosphere as a buffer zone means that all there is has been attracted to and subsequently landing upon and otherwise badly impacting the lunar surface. With absolutely no surface winds nor other understood events sweeping away the shards and dust, by now there should have been several meters worth of dead meteorites and their shards strewn about, mostly from the past but perhaps another meter or so worth of somewhat finer micro-meteorites and their shards nicely topping off any sufficiently horizontal surface, darn little of which should have been light colored, but of more common basalt mineral like and/or of even darker basalt looking (accounting for the typical 11% reflective index), and otherwise absolutely razor sharp as a tack, along with something of another dust-bunny incoming at 10+km/s per m2/day, even though much of what Earth and our moon is having to swim through could be impacting at 30+km/s, and should thereby suggest an average impact of perhaps 15+km/s.

All toll that's potentially accumulating at the rate of a mere 2,740 years per mm depth, or that of taking 2.74e6 years/m, though if you'd care to limit those various impacts to that of once a year/m2, that's still only taking a billion years/m, which seems to be suggesting that our moon is either far less old than touted, or that those Apollo mission photos were somewhat skewed in more ways than we can shake a flaming stick at, as 4+billion years worth and counting should have become at least four meters of accumulations, and subsequently there'd have been far less visible of the actual lunar surface, other than of the strewn accumulations of countless meteorites and subsequent lunar impact shards layered upon the surface of such a pure object as that of our moon.

Standing in some ultra-sonic wind tunnel, even without the wind, still packs a nasty particle punch at 30+km/s:
You might want to further rethink of your lunar surface environment as for standing in a supersonic wind tunnel, though obviously without the wind, none the less having a good number of those specks of sand and dust that are coming at speeds 100 times faster than merely supersonic. A mere 2 mg particle impacting at 30+km/s is capable of being worth 900 MJ/sec, even though that body and soul piercing impact (moon suit and all) is likely to transpire in well under 1 ms rather than 1 sec. seems to imply upon yet another booster (1e3)2 factor of imposing yet another additional million times more penetrating punch, which is obviously capable of inflicting many TJ/ms.

I don't know about your moon suit, but that of my moon suit is going to be nicely surrounded by the benefit of LM-1 (Lunar Metro Bus), constructed primarily out of basalt composites and as tough of other elements and alloys as possible, whereas the basalt fibers creating a woven composite plus micro-sphere insulating shell of perhaps 250 mm, with the most protected interior zone having a density surround worth of 500 mm, offering my body an overall insulated and alloy reinforced defensive shell depth or density of perhaps as much as 3+t/m3 (30 g/cm2). Of course on the moon that's down to a structural mass of perhaps not more than 500 kg/m3, plus whatever outfitting and crew accommodations making for the entire LM-1 weighing a mere 100t/6 = 36,750 lbs. A larger variation of the LM-1, the LM-1E class metro bus might become 300t/6 = 110,250 lbs., of which such a track driven metro bus as powered along by the IRRCE consuming mostly imported H2O2 and of a little C12H26 would certainly offer by far the most bang per kg, but I believe also per dollar/euro, allowing for the safe prospecting and mining of 3He or He3 to transpire without folks having to get their brains blown out by some lunar bound dust bunny, nor otherwise TBI to death by some solar flare and associated flak, plus from all those secondary lunar terrain created hard X-Rays coming at you from just about every which way but lose.

In other words; no atmosphere means absolutely no shield against squat, much like what's depicted as present day life on Mars being thoroughly pulverised and/or sub frozen to death, and otherwise being thoroughly TBI beyond whatever banked bone marrow could even salvage of what's left of your inferior human DNA/RNA. At least what little there is of an atmosphere for Mars offers a rather considerable defense against a good deal of what's influxing, as compared to the absolute zilch factor that's happening for our moon.

From all of this ongoing research, I've managed to learn that atom bonding of metallic solids offers a vacuum component coefficient, in that individual free metallic atoms actually take up more space than bonded ones. Thus surely such heavier atoms that must coexist in whatever vacuum do in fact occupy space, along with gas atoms.

From: M.C.Harrison
The highest recorded vacuum to date was shuttle achieved by a free space experiment that accomplished this feat by hanging a plate off the back of the shuttle, achieving around 1000 atoms per cubic centimeter. As opposed to the best achieved here on Earth being a vacuum of a million atoms per cc, or a thousand times greater numbers of atoms than outer space.

Thereby free space atoms (the vacuum of space as we know it) resembles 1e3/ccm = 1e9 atoms/m3 (mostly of hydrogen).

From: Bill Hudson
A pure vacuum offers no intrinsic temperature. It cannot be either hot or cold since it is the absence of matter.  No atoms, no vibrating atoms, no temperature.

It seems likely that of any given vacuum, there's actually a great deal of substance to contend with, much more so apparent if you're making 10% ls or greater headway, as that composite may also have incorporate the sudden output of massive solar flares, and of course that of any supernovae goes without question. Whereas a relatively short mission, such as to/from our moon, can be somewhat well timed, and otherwise can be relatively protected from most everything except that of our sun and of whatever influx of other hard flak that simply needs to be avoided at all cost.

Obviously by our having the magnetosphere and even the nearly zilch worth of an atmosphere as your abode surround, much like that of what's above and surrounding ISS is still doing us some good. Whereas for the lunar environment is anything but, making the situation worse off by running itself into and otherwise dragging onto nearly everything that's within it's gravity influence, and of only further accelerating such towards nearly an unlimited final velocity. Fortunately for ISS, it doesn't impose any measurable gravitational pull, and of having that slight atmosphere that's sustaining a perfectly valuable buffer zone for it's benefit.

All of this exercise in our physically going places is entirely absurd, as not only is it horrifically time consuming and spendy and risky and downright taking way too much energy, but it'll only further pollute Earth in making it happen and it's otherwise morally dead wrong.

First off, you transmit your request/packet for establishing a dialog, then for a little sharing of information, only then as for possibly suggesting a physical visitation, and doing all of this initial contact with the biological safety as well as much lower cost and energy efficient methods currently available from using laser cannons, of which we don't even need to be all that powerful if we're doing Venus. On the other hand, claw, tentacle, or whatever else those Venus lizard heathen folks have to work with, their reply effort may require somewhat greater energy, or that of a high flying rigid airship, although fortunately there's absolutely no shortage of energy on Venus nor lack of airship buoyancy and, best of all is that one of the necessary gas elements (CO2) for establishing a darn good illumination beam or laser cannon is already nicely preheated and even sufficiently pressurised, and they've got lots of that to spare.

Christ almighty; duh and double duh folks, what the freaking heck is so terribly wrong with our doing something that doesn't take millions and billions and otherwise create thousands of tonnes of additional CO2 for mother Earth, much less risk any chance of our roasting another batch of astronauts?

The only logic that I and others can possibly pull out of why this effort to proficiently accomplish interplanetary communications hasn't been transpiring is quite obvious, it's that our system of government has simply been thoroughly broke, as so overloaded with their cold-war "dog wagging", "disinformation" and otherwise chuck full of "infomercial" hype city allusions and of otherwise truth eliminations, that all our space toilets have been overflowing for decades.

This one simply isn't science fiction, nor even rocket science, it's science truth or consequences.


Calling Venus (if we're not being allowed to officially look at Venus, much less even discuss the possibilities, then it certainly can't hurt our focusing a few laser cannons upon it);
If you're perchance the sort of individual that's more interested in the truly viable prospects of our achieving interplanetary communications (contacting ETs without utilizing radio), as for that relatively simple and extremely efficient quest, I've added lots of notions, if not a little too much quantum packet information into this following page;
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-interplanetary.htm

Here's some of the latest deliveries upon what other is new, and of what's certainly hot, as offering a bit more than you may need to know of what my three brain cells can deliver on behalf of Sirius lizard folk terraforming the likes of Mars, Earth and Venus.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-earth-venus.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/synchronized-moon.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-sirius-trek.htm
Cost or Consequences is merely offering yet another vantage point or perspective.
Of lizard folk from Sirius terraforming the likes of Earth might be asking a bit much.
Cometh the ice ages, right on a Sirius schedule, every 110,000 years, at least until mankind came along.
The likes of carbon life on Sirius/c, Venus and even Mars should have their fair share of diatoms.


For those honestly interested in the future of what our highly obtainable moon has to offer, rather than having to continually muck about within the skewed Apollo space toilet of our past;  Much of my lunar or bust interest has been in regard to our establishing a focus upon achieving the LSE (Lunar Space Elevator) and/or GMDE (Guth Moon Dirt Express) depot, as a notion offering humanity a perfectly valid means/gateway to an end (actually many obtainable ends), of which seems lately to include the rather worthy fusion hot prospect of our obtaining He3 or 3He, as well as for further accommodating those folks intent upon trekking off to Mars or Venus: The Lunar Space Elevator http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
To the INDEX page: GUTH Venus (with loads of recently posted UPDATES)
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