Is there or isn't there moon water, or "so what's the difference".

(it's on again, off again; either there's more moon water than you can imagine, or there's absolutely zilch)

by; Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA     updated: January 28, 2004

It's either mortal creationism or it's hapenstance on steroids

If there's other life that could somehow have influenced the likes of Earth, for that task there's but only Sirius to thank, as every other opportunity is simply too far away or off track. So, in addition to whatever we humans can manage with the likes of our moon, and perhaps Venus, it seems that other life doesn't stand all that much of a chance, unless they're a whole lot smarter than us humans. Of course, how hard could it actually be, as for becoming smarter than Earth humans (example; GW Bush)?

It's been looking a bit tough, sort of "on again, off again";  if there's moon water that is, as if so it's now perceived as fully absorbed and perhaps sealed into a sufficiently dense layer that's situated sufficiently below the surface, and I'd think not necessarily north or south pole related, since the moon offers no climate nor seasons, only that of day and night regardless of wherever you're standing, unless you're situated in some extremely deep crater, thus greatly increasing the shaded portion of the otherwise fully solar illuminated and irradiated surface.

Being that plain old h2o boils itself off as roughly 0ºC, at least if residing in a pure vacuum, though much easier if being bombarded by loads of cosmic and solar influx, so much so that at times is rather testy and most likely capable of even exceeding 3 meters worth of penetration from time to time. Thus of there being any likelihood of whatever water, it is most likely stored below 3 meters worth of lunar basalt, which is certainly still worth a good look-see.

After all, the lunar daytime is simply a terrifically hot sort of place to be, and not just thermally speaking, but as in thermo nuclear as well, as in you're standing on such a sufficiently dense and energy absorbing surface that's entirely unobstructed as to whatever is incoming, thus also highly reactive to a fairly wide spectrum of solar influx that's being absorbed into the typically 11% reflective lunar surface, hence a high percentage of the solar spectrum isn't reflected, rather being directly absorbed as energy, and subsequently much of that energy is converted directly into heat. I've learned that to some measurable degree, a certain amount of influx converts itself into a class of hard x-rays, while obviously the influx portion of what's solar 3He or He3 has been injected a bit further inward to some point of no return. In other words, He3 or 3He is sort of infused into various lunar solids for safe keeping.

During a typical solar maximum sort of day, if working the standard EVA shift, you might expect the raw lunar environment to frequently being 364 rads/hr, though otherwise seldom below 364 rads per day, and as for your lunar environment receiving a good deal of it's dosage directly from the solar influx, but also contributed from the composite of cosmic and solar influx that's impacting and thus bady reacting so as to be generating those additional hard x-rays, and of whatever other reactionary aspects that's subsequently coming off the surrounding surface of a mostly dark basalt and composite of various lunar and non-lunar substances, as certainly there's secondary issues comming off those countless meteorites and their shards (our moon being the meteorite morgue of all time).

Since those solar created hard x-rays that manage to emerge themselves above the lunar surface are essentially unobstructed from that point on, firing off in every way which way but lose. Once created and free to move about the countryside as super-charged particles on sort of death to all trajectory, throughout their entire above-surface environment, as obviously this is where the most lethal dosage and for being within range of such x-rays should be worth several km from the surrounding terrain of wherever you're standing. I'm told that the moon measurably reflects at least 1% of whatever direct solar influx of x-rays, as such easily recorded by various satellites (actually utilized as a form of radiation instrument calibration), thus obviously we're talking about those sorts of nasty items having traveled thousands of km if not of those being Earth satellite measured as having been trekking hundreds of thousands of km. Thus the closer to the lunar surface the somewhat greater density and worse off it has to get, at least up until earthshine becomes your primary illumination resource rather than the direct sun, as then it's of the cosmic influx and of whatever is lunar background plus whatever wraps itself around from the sunlight side, that should offer the typical nighttime surface environment a much healthier 100 or less rads/day, of which within a darn good sort of moon suit (say 2 g/cm2) is almost like taking that "walk in the park", as long as you're still referring to the sort of entirely nude walk about that's of the sort of park surrounding Chernobyl, that being quite survivable though at least ten fold worse off than any Chernobyl park.

In other words, as to be directly standing on and actually within a good couple of cm worth of the thermally super heated surface is certainly one terrifically bad sort of thing to be doing, however, being surrounded by millions of square meters worth of not only sufficiently solar reflective but also of being somewhat x-ray reflective, plus having those additional lunar surroundings of x-ray generating substances is hardly going to make your EVA into any Apollo "walk in the park", not even the least bit as passive as for any Chernobyl environment. Thus my argument(s) for having a rather substantial lunar metro bus (LM-1) as to get yourself safely about, rather than being so thermally punished as well as TBI x-rayed to death, and for not even to forget about those potentially lethal dust bunnies and/or worse sort of stuff impacting upon each and every m2 from time to time.

If a grain of sand (say not more than 1 mm) were of .004g = 200 kg impact.

If a lunar dust bunny (say not more than 1 mm) were .0002g = 10 kg impact.

Clearly something as potentially vile as a dust bunny traveling lunar bound that's of 1 mm, or even a bulky fluff of 1 ccm worth in size, is still going to potentially impact your moon suit or helmet at 10 km/s, with a rather noticeable impact force of 10 kg. Now then, that's likely going to hurt, though thankfully it may not penetrate, but it certainly could knock you over, as on your butt.

So, once all of your physical environmental protection issues are resolved by having the LM-1 metro buss to travel about the moon, it well certainly be nice if there's lunar water to being had, though if not or simply too difficult to extract, said water as h2o or perhaps h2o2 is just the sort of raw item that can be robotically delivered, as imported with little fear of any Greenpiece protester screaming fowl play if there's a leak, or even a flat out impact deluge. All we'll need is that lunar class, thus obviously purely rocket powered, Osprey (RLV-22) that can robotically lower a substantial ball of frozen h2o or h2o2 onto the cool but extremely well illuminated via earthshine nighttime surface. If it arrives in a ball form, then it can be most easily transported on it's own surface, as rolled if need be to some protected cave or intentional storage depot before sunrise.

This folowing portion is sort of science "what if". A wee bit off topic, but I think entirely related to our moon and perhaps Venus;

This effort being one of these "Once Upon a Time" issues, where I'm not all that convinced that Earth and the likes of Venus, along with the "once upon a time" a Venus moon, weren't sort of EL-1 + VL-2, or perhaps vice versa, gravity clutched as in orbiting our sun as nearly sided by side, along with that pesky Venus moon contributing some truly horrific things between us.

I'm fairly certain, as the sort of true space wizards some of you folks must be, or at least claim being, that you will have all sorts of better terminology for this Earth/Venus~moon situation, and loads of planetary evolution software capable of being run in either a super-computer or upon some enormous internet collective that's at your disposal, which of course you probably are not about to share because, absolutely none of this ever happened, or because Earth and only Earth is at the absolute center of your tiny little black-hole universe that was created just for your enjoyment by the one and only very sick and/or perverted sort of God you admire.

Although, if we could go back in time, such as a mere 80,000 years ago (I believe that's a geological drop in the bucket), Sirius/abc was certainly darn close. So, put that one in your pipe and smoke it, or perhaps smoke a few of those super-computer CPUs.

If given 80,000 years * 364 * 24 * 60 * 60 * 20 = 50.32e12 miles traveled

If there's 5.85e12 miles/ly

If Sirius is 8.5 ly away = 49.725e12 miles away

In a few other words of a certified village idiot; where the hell was Sirius as of 80,000 or so years ago?

As you can see, there's quite a situation or opportunity of there being some rather unusual happenstances, or perhaps divine creationism brewing, of our moon being initially the property of Venus or Mars, and as of once-upon-a-time when Sirius was so near by, that of such a planet like Venus or possibly even Mars could have had just such a moon as ours, and with the occupants of Sirius/Venus or Sirius/Mars opting for taking their shore leave within our solar system, rather than betting their entire farm upon continuing at 20 miles/second into the vast unknown, along with their highly irregular Sirius/ab stars and of whatever sister planets, as for considering upon the possibility of utilizing one of their moons as a viable transporter or perhaps as a life transponder, as a physical go-between their world and ours, or simply as somewhat of a pitstop or sort of life boat, especially should their arriving on Earth become a big disappointment beyond their reasonable DNA/RNA limits (such as Earth could have been way too wet and too cold), or upon discovering such a total lack of Earthly intelligence to being intolerable if not insurmountable, or possibly just in case this effort turns out representing an unobtainable goal due to complications beyond their control. As for being temporarily situated on the moon would make for their rescue a whole lot more viable than for being stranded on Earth.

At least that sort of "what if" outcome would help account for the rather unusual mass/density and feature dissimilarities, as something an intelligent terraforming creator would have been making damn certain this moon of theirs was as stable and as usable as possible, as it certainly wouldn't have accommodated them to having this moon rapidly spinning, nor without a thermal nuclear core, or without that of a carefully crafted engineering plot of first creating and then utilizing tidal forces in order to insure that the darn thing wouldn't come crashing down upon Earth (wouldn't have made much sense getting yourself and fellow inmates onto Earth, only to being pulverised by your own moon). Whatever other necessities of life could have been off-loaded from their home world (Venus/Mars) onto this moon, as staged until the time was just right for making their switch onto Earth.

As quite like our space travel technology exist of today, much less of those Apollo ruse/sting days, we do seem to have the near ability of somewhat limited space travel capability, of supposedly getting ourselves to other planets, or possibly onto one of their moons and conceivably then onto the planet itself. However, we still don't have all the necessary expertise, or energy resources nor can we launch with sufficient shielding as for our actually arriving alive, nor least of all, of our ever coming back to Earth, which could be just fine and dandy if where you were going is what the intended one-way mission was all about in the first place. Perhaps that sort of Sirius/Venus-->Earth mission was not anything more complex than salvaging your butt, as knowing that the demise of your home world was clearly not making for a happy campers, where your life options were few if not entirely exhausted (much like those Cathars must have felt while being methodically exterminated by the Pope), thus you'd have little if anything to lose by jumping ship.

Unfortunately, as your home world(s) and those relatively nasty Sirius stars are headed off into never-never land, at 20 miles/second (72,000 mph) no less, in no time at all there'd be little if any possibility of any worthwhile rescue mission, nor even that of a care package as coming from home, at least not unitl someone reinvented the wheel and subsequently managed to space travel safely at much greater speeds, such as initially obtaining 60 miles/second (216,000 mph), as otherwise at 21 miles/second (75,600 mph) all that could be deployed are those robotic drones and of their contents intended for eventually reaching those folks that had previously managed to make it to earth via their moon transportage.

This following addition/update may be only a wee bit off the need for our focusing upon the "calling Venus" topic, but perhaps it's not nearly as far off as you might like to think. In fact, this time it's more "what if" truth than consequences;

Thinking SIRIUS, as in a timeline starting off 40,000 years ago.

The orbit of Sirius in relationship to our solar system may become the most significant key to understanding the cycles of recorded CO2 levels. Of course, this sort of entirely blows those Big Bang principles all to hell and then some.

According to well established geological research, and of their hard "proof positive" timeline findings, as of roughly 40,000 years ago, our CO2 percentage or PPM has nearly doubled, though right for now it's still headed straight for the moon, soaring as though it's being boosted along by some super-duper nuclear powered rocket.

Interesting to further note, that at the time when Sirius was perhaps nearest to our solar system, of which this timeline could have been as little as 40,000 years ago, that was when Earth's photosynthesis activity was obviously peaking, in other words CO2 levels were essentially dropping like a rock as Sirius approached, and continued to drop and bottom out as Sirius arrived nearest to our solar system, then CO2 levels increased as Sirius moved off. It's almost as though something as horrifically illuminating and sustaining as Sirius had previously swung past our solar system some 260,000 years ago, then again 150,000 years ago, and most recently came around for yet another near miss as of perhaps as little as 40,000 years ago.

Of course, vast alterations in our own solar output could have managed the very same degree of accellerated photosynthesis task, however the well known illumination index of Sirius, plus that combined of our own sun might have represented what it actually took, as to have made our night into day, and of Earth's normal daylight periods into extremely illuminated (UV plentiful) events that lasted for thousands of years at a time.

If perchance the 40,000 year ago window of opportunity were to be utilized for pegging the speed of Sirius recession, that places the average rate of recession at roughly 40 miles/sec, even though the present day estimate is published at 20 miles/sec and that of an estimated distance of 8.5 light years. Though astronomy has been known for being in error, chances are most likely that hell must freeze over before anyone is gong to admit they're wrong, so don't bother looking for honest intellectual contributions from the ranks of astronomy wizards, as they'd rather die, as well as allowing hordes of others to die off, rather than ever admit being in error. In fact, before admitting error, or even least of all admitting that anyone other is even the slightest bit more right than they are, these testy astronomy folks would just as soon eat their own kind as not.

Getting us back on track, somewhat out of the science of "what ifs", and of focusing upon what's doable within our own realm, within the talents and expertise of what's been at hand for decades;

If there's other life in the universe (pretty much has to be, at least Dogon or Cathar folks of Sirius/c), then perhaps we should be calling upon it via laser packets because, laser is so damn fast and, it can be efficiently and effectively pointed at just one star, or within our solar system it can be focused upon one planet at a time. I understand that modern laser cannons of 0.5 milliradian are common place, and that perhaps 0.05 milliradian isn't outside what's technically doable, and certainly a CO2 laser with a touch of mercury will generate those UV and near UV spectrum beams.

One perfectly good and humanitarian usage for the moon, besides obtaining all that nifty he3/3he, or even of obtaining those rather super terrific VLA-SAR imaging of other planets (such as 0.1 meter raw resolution of the surface of Jupiter), is for implementing an affordable applied strategy upon interplanetary communications, thus entirely eliminating the sort of atmospheric absorbson, distortions and loss of divergence, same goes for the photon receiving considerations. BTW; none of a lunar based communications transponder need be manned, as the current level of robotics will more than suffice, and just solar energy will more than power this deployment. In fact, with implementing a substantial mylar mirror that's voice coil modulated offers entire solar spectrum of light at our desposal, whereas millawatts can effectively command whatever 1000 m2 worth of tightly focused mylar can be devised into a modulated solar illuminated beam, of which we're talking of analog having a composite of binary if not quantum binary formated on top of the horrific solar CW beam, all of which might not raise the awarness of those at Sirius but, should more than burn out those rods and of whatever cones of any nocturnal lizard folk residing within their nighttime season on Venus.

Venus nighttime atmosphere is still relatively hot and nasty, at least humanly speaking: though folks from Sirius might suggest otherwise.

Venus heat is relative;  as firstly based on Venus folks having evolved the necessary DNA properties and of a reasonable level of intelligence, then upon the ambient pressure (the more the better off you'll be), though also affected by the available elevation, and always there's the extended season of nighttime combined along with the rather excellent thermal conduction mode of CO2 that's vertically extracting energy at the same or greater rate as for whatever the influx of the fully illuminated Venus brings to bear. Essentially, the energy output of Venus has been somewhat greater than what the solar influx has contributed, since Venus as a whole isn't getting itself measurably hotter, if anything it's cooling off. For further thermal benefit, there's some rather super terrific terratory that offers elevations of 10+km and, of what's situated below those 25+% worth of near-UV opacity clouds offers a crystal clear ocean of CO2 that's thermally conductive as well as terrifically buoyant, plus there's always the possibility of applying that buoyancy, thus obtaining an even higher degree of comfort via altitude usage (getting above their cloud deck) as accomplished by rigid airship that could just as nicely function as an observatory, of which any halfwit lizard folk should have been able to observe numerous details of Earth and even a few of it's moon by way of their naked nocturnal eyes, perhaps all four of them eyes, or just of one such eye will suffice.

Unless you're a nocturnal lizard sort of folk, possibly Cathar and as such not about to die off simply because your world is situated next door to the dumbest and most pathetic excuse of any other planet in the universe, as otherwise you're simply not going to fully appreciate this moment, that as downright embarrassing as it might be, of being situated next to Earth, it's certainly not worth dying over. As perhaps like our warm and fuzzy NASA, by ignoring the truth and hoping it might simply go away, as for otherwise being so well cloaked under a sufficient layer of clouds means that a Venus form of government can go about lying to their populous, of intentionally skewing the truth onto their style of Borgs and otherwise snookered village idiots, if need be lying through multiple orifices and all at the same time without ever cracking a smile about all those strange but intelligent looking patterns of illuminations in their nighttime clouds, that seem otherwise so artificial, as being merely swamp gas and/or illusions by those of some forbidden Islamic faith.

As for Earth doing Venus; for this phase I'm thinking our inferior DNA/RNA, as well as our badly sagging intellectual capabilities might have to take the back seat on this one, by our having to stay within a protective cacoon in order to survive their hot and nasty environment. Though since no one has been invited, I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. I mean, why even go there if we're 1) we've not been invited, 2) haven't even bothered to call ahead.

Apparently, there's been some well established results that only further substantiates my previous guestimates, such as the nearly 68 bar working environments created by this following research lab (68 bar being the current level of technology limits and not necessarily that of the human factor), obviously applied upon humankind that were given every benefit of the doubt, gradually exposed to this horrific pressure, sustained for a sufficient period of time while accomplishing various tasks, then thoughtfully brought back into Earth's surface environment, again with all due respect for the "what ifs" and of avoiding all the nasty issues of otherwise dying;

Again, this is not my wisdom suggesting that we should be planning upon going out of our way to be visiting those Venus lizard folks, at least not before attempting a few long-distance but merely interplanetary local area code phone calls via laser packets, or perhaps as offering a composite analog laser beam hosting a few terabytes/s worth of those quantum binary packets, so that the widest possible range of species and of technologies can detect and hopefully devise something as crude and primitive in order to transmit their reply, offering something like; please go away, or else!

This notion of a laser beam that's capable of sufficiently illuminating through those relatively cool nighttime clouds is not rocket science, it's more or less like initially utilizing a near UV spectrum (400~450 nm) beam as a pointer, though configured so as to obtaining the best penetration. Although, once a data link is established (even 1 bps is good for go), obviously depending upon the mutual technology interface or weakest link which well most likely be on our side of this equation, that spectrum and subsequent baud rate may become almost anything.

Even crude radio can be implemented;  although I don't know why they'd bother coming down to that level, unless we supplied the interactive kiosk for them to utilize, as radio might be somewhat of an "antique road show" as far as they're concerned, somewhat like if you were handed a gramaphone 78 or perhaps an an even older Ediaphone cylinder, and of those giving you this analog record made of hard wax were waiting to see you smile, as though you were somehow impressed by the level of their technology.

OK, at this point I'd certainly take whatever I could get, even if it were a couple of soup cans using an interplanetary tether/string, especially if at the other end was some Venus ET heathen trying to respond, even though for decades we've all been too snookered by those folks having "the right stuff", so much so that we didn't even bother to take Osama bin Laden seriously, nor of a few dozen other clues, starting off with the USS LIBERTY fiasco, nor of GW Bush and of his Salem bin Laden business dealings, not to mention his preemptive tactics plotting upon overthrowing Iraq from the very get-go.

If you think you can contribute to any of these issues, or to this novel of life and consequences, as somehow managing to circumvent my poor math and other dyslexic methods, I'm all ears, though I've been told that there's not all that much between them ears because, my Borg collective interface has been broken down for at least the past three years worth and counting, though your's is probably still fully functioning and synchronized into the collective.

Some good but difficult warlord readings: SADDAM HUSSEIN and The SAND PIRATES

The latest round of insults to this Mars/Moon/Venus class action injury:
and then there's the Sirius-CO2 connection:

Some other recent file updates:

For those interested more into the future rather than mucking about within the toilet of the past;  Much of my lunar or bust interest has been in regard to establishing a focus upon the LSE (Lunar Space Elevator) and/or GMDE (Guth Moon Dirt Express) depot notion, as a perfectly valid means/gateway to an end (actually many obtainable ends), of which seems to include the fusion hot prospect of obtaining He3, as well as for accommodating those intent upon trekking off to Mars or Venus: The Lunar Space Elevator
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